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maah!:The Acaryas call other religions "kaitava dharma" or cheating religions. "I have found that I myself tend to think in terms of such a distinction, and that this seems to be an obstacle on my path, so I'd like to look into it, to see how this obstacle can be overcome." Please tell us how thinking with distinction is an obstacle for you. "Intelligence means fine discrimination.' Srila Prabhupada.In short, I am afraid that I have taken to the "wrong religion". I can't objectivley justify why I have taken to GV, so it seems it is the wrong one.
portnoy:It seems that you have already made up your mind and that's that. There's not much more anybody can say.Thank you for your well wishes. But I have to disagree with you. I am quite sure that there is some philosophical aspect that I am not understanding properly and which I need to figure out before I can move on.
VEDA:> "Even if the path of bhakti isn't true, it is still a good way to live."You will have to tell me more about this, please!
This is what SP once answered to a reporter who asked "What would you do if it's proven Krsna doesn't exist?" SP chose to go along and stated the above. It means that bhaktiyoga is a honest and blissful way of life, better than any other path (karma, jnana, yoga). At the deathbed one won't be feeling his life was wasted.
> whether I have wasted my life, or whether it has all been a sham and I should have taken to an altogether different religion.My Christian conditioning is not to be underestimated ... I can read and explain about reincarnation until I am breathless, and a second later say "But I am still afraid this isn't so and I will burn in hell for all eternity."
This fear comes from the 'one life' paradigm when one is afraid of the afterlife, having very vague idea about it. "If I choose a wrong religion, I'll be eternally condemned." You must have missed the link to our reincarnation article which deals with Biblical objection against r.: http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/reincarnation.htm
dweller-in-peace: Trueness and fakeness pertain to the ego of the followers of a religion.Yes, I have been suspecting that the way a person speaks about their religion and the religions of other people has a lot to do with that person's ideas of how they want and should present themselves, in order to fulfill some particular agenda. This occured to me as I have noticed that the instructions various religionists have given me and other people for how to practice a religion and how to know the truth about it, seemed very different from the instructions they said they have followed in order to arrive at their present considerably advanced (" "?) religious status.
deena:So the answer to the question at hand lies in you assessing a religion against the criteria recommended by Shri Krishna in the Gita. Can you try it and get back to us with your conclusion?Being somewhat familiar with the Bhagavad-gita, I can tell you right away that I think it probably delivers what it promises - provided that the person follows the instructions fully.
ccd: Philosophy is practical. At least eastern philosophy.I agree. I have always thought philosophy is practical, perhaps the most practical kind of knowledge there is. Because when life gets hard, one has to be able to think clearly in order to act wisely.
Ha. The path of bhakti is true! It is the path of every true religion as well."True" in what sense?
That IS devotional service - to ask questions. It is devotional service to answer them.As per BG 18.68?
portnoy: In my 41 years as a disciple of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada I have never heard him preach like that. The fact that you exist, Sri Govinda Das -- and that you pretend that you speak for my spiritual master and the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya is a scary and disheartening thought. You are dangerous in your misrepresentation and that is why I continue to take a hard and harsh line with you and ask you repeatedly to please stay quiet. Don't write anything here anymore and don't preach on public forums. You have a lot of growing up to do and a lot of introspective soul searching before you hopefully mature out of this show bottle fanatical over zealous self righteous holier than thou personality you display shamelessly. Please ... please please please keep quiet. Hush. No more. You're embarrassing yourself and what's worse you are embarrassing any and all genuine followers and students of Srila Prabhupada in your horrific misrepresentation of his mood and teachings. Next time you bow down on the marble floor -- stay down. Don't get up. Maybe if you remain in that position for a few days or weeks or years you'll have a catharsis -- a breakthrough. That's wishful thinking but hope springs eternal where there is "aguarta sukriti."Seems to me that in your 41 years of discipleship you have learned very little of compassion your guru had for his disciples. I am embarassed just reading the above post. While Sri Govinda das sometimes writes controversial pieces, you are in no position to tell him to be quiet. You are not his guru and you do not have a patent on being a 'genuine follower and student of Srila Prabhupada'. ---------- Young devotees who read such exchanges have the right to wonder: "Is that what I'm going to sound like after practicing Krsna consciousness for 40 years?" ----------- Yikes! scary thought...
portnoy:What the hell is aguarta sukriti? In my 41 years as a disciple of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada I have never heard him preach like that. The fact that you exist, Sri Govinda Das -- and that you pretend that you speak for my spiritual master and the Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya is a scary and disheartening thought. You are dangerous in your misrepresentation and that is why I continue to take a hard and harsh line with you and ask you repeatedly to please stay quiet. Don't write anything here anymore and don't preach on public forums. You have a lot of growing up to do and a lot of introspective soul searching before you hopefully mature out of this show bottle fanatical over zealous self righteous holier than thou personality you display shamelessly. Please ... please please please keep quiet. Hush. No more. You're embarrassing yourself and what's worse you are embarrassing any and all genuine followers and students of Srila Prabhupada in your horrific misrepresentation of his mood and teachings. Next time you bow down on the marble floor -- stay down. Don't get up. Maybe if you remain in that position for a few days or weeks or years you'll have a catharsis -- a breakthrough. That's wishful thinking but hope springs eternal where there is "aguarta sukriti."Well, this is a free, open online forum, and everyone can have their say, at least to some extent.
Kula-pavana:Young devotees who read such exchanges have the right to wonder: "Is that what I'm going to sound like after practicing Krsna consciousness for 40 years?" ----------- Yikes! scary thought...This is true, though, such exchanges do make me fear whether even after decades of supposed devotional service, I am going to sound feisty like that. This fear makes me slow down and look into issues pertaining to the practice in more detail. Which, of course, in the eyes of some just makes me appear like an idle skeptic, unsurrendered and so on, earning me more of such criticism.
VEDA:> "Even if the path of bhakti isn't true, it is still a good way to live." This is what SP once answered to a reporter who asked "What would you do if it's proven Krsna doesn't exist?" SP chose to go along and stated the above. It means that bhaktiyoga is a honest and blissful way of life, better than any other path (karma, jnana, yoga). At the deathbed one won't be feeling his life was wasted.Could you please provide the reference for where Srila Prabhupada said that?
Baker:There is nothing wrong with being a sceptic. Usually that is a sign of intelligence. Real truth is illuminating and does not have to be brainwashed or drilled into people. ------------------ As to the progress on the path.... It is up to you how well you will use your time spent on the practice of bhakti-yoga. I know quite a few very advanced disciples of Srila Prabhupada who are a great pleasure to associate with. They are my inspiration. I can also see how this process transformed me personally. I have become a much better person over the years (as hard as it may be to believe).Kula-pavana:Young devotees who read such exchanges have the right to wonder: "Is that what I'm going to sound like after practicing Krsna consciousness for 40 years?" ----------- Yikes! scary thought...This is true, though, such exchanges do make me fear whether even after decades of supposed devotional service, I am going to sound feisty like that. This fear makes me slow down and look into issues pertaining to the practice in more detail. Which, of course, in the eyes of some just makes me appear like an idle skeptic, unsurrendered and so on, earning me more of such criticism.
portnoy:Who the hell is Pornoy? If you wanna get clever and sarcastic at least watch your spelling ccd. It takes the wind right out of your sails. Okay -- now get the spelling right and make another smug comment to impress your audience.Is "Portnoy" your real name, or did you deliberately choose it as your screen name?
portnoy:Portnoy is my ALTAR ego. Most pujaris have ALTAR egos as well.Is this some kind of reference to Philip Roth's novel?
Baker:Could be just a name of an immigrant who settled in NY in early 20c ;-)portnoy:Portnoy is my ALTAR ego. Most pujaris have ALTAR egos as well.Is this some kind of reference to Philip Roth's novel?
portnoy:He said he would rather have one moonlike student than a thousand stars.Can you actually show us such a quote? ------------------ And if that is true, is that why SP initiated some 5000 disciples? ------------------ This is the proper quote, without your twisting influences:-------------- SP speaking about brahmanas (Morning Walk Establishing the College of Vedic Science http://krishna.org/morning-walk-establishing-the-college-of-vedic-science-mp3-audio/ ) ------------------- "Bahya means external, and abhyantara means internal, not duplicity. That bahya, externally something, and internally something, that will not be successful. Bahyabhyantaram sucih. Sucih means purified, brahmana. And who is not purified, he is mucih. (break) We have to present an ideal institution, not that we make compromise with everybody. That is not our business. We don’t want stars. We want moon. What is the use of millions of stars? Get one moon. That is sufficient. (break) …not expect everyone to become brahmana. That is not possible. Because the three qualities are working, you cannot make all the population on the modes of goodness. That is not possible. There must be people in passion and ignorance. Otherwise, why Krsna says, catur-varnyam, four division?" ---------------------------------- The Moon is ISKCON! ----------------- another lie exposed....