Social: [Closed] Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa

Can I get some information about the guru JG Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa. If you know something about him please tell me. My friend is intent on finding his followers and becoming one himself. There seems to be little about him online. Discussions both positive and negative seems to have stopped. Is he still alive. Let me know what you know.

Where did they split to? Are they a deviation from the Gaudiya Sampradaya? If so what are the deviations?

Siddhaswarupananda Maharaja (Chris Butler) eventually left ISKCON, went back to Hawaii, formed a new organization called "Science of Identity" -- got married -- and lives a reclusive life in a very posh home in Hawaii. Many of the folks who were originally his followers and disciples from before he joined ISKCON in the early 70's are back with him and they also have expanded with centers mainly in Hawaii, Australia and the Phillipines. His Disciples refer to him as "Jagat Guru" as well as "Prabhupada." Among his loyal followers in Hawaii Siddhaswarup has some influential and controversial disciples such as Mike Gabbard, a local politician.

The above should be enough info for "googling" one's way right up to Siddhaswarup's door -- but don't expect to be invited in. He has body guards and a security system at his enclave.

Once I visited their program in Prague. Two Polish followers, one Czech translator and about six visitors, myself included.
The main thing is they want to avoid being confused with ISKCON. Therefore they didn't wear dhoti but business suits, no sikhas but regular hair, not playing traditional instruments but guitar, no mahamantra but mantra(?) "nitai gaur haribol, haribol nitai gaur". The philosophy itself wasn't deviated. At the end they distributed prasadam oranges. In summary, nothing specifically attractive although chanting Holy Names should be appreciated. Otoh, our acaryas don't like manufactured mantras.

D V A Shun

BTW. I emailed at their site but no one responds to my questions. I wanted to know where their temples are. They must have a Sunday program. Anyone know?

Do they have any actual temples?

Ouch! My gosh. Those are really clear words. How is it so many accept that he is a 'Paramahamsa'?

Are there any online forums I can talk directly to his followers? All the websites I found are the same, quite generic but no forums or real interaction. How does one meet him? Where does he stay? There must be some access to him.

Imagination sri_govinda_das -- Urmila did go ahead and visited their temples a few years back, like in 2003, they are doing well and expanding in their areas, do not know about NZ (why would anyone go that far;-).

Over the years I have met several of Siddhasvarupananda's disciples and found them to be very nice people. I went on harinam with them once in Poland and they were chanting Hare Krsna (that was around year 2000). They de-emphasize the external things like wearing dhotis or saris, and have a less strict approach to the 4 regulative principles. Other than the practical points, their theology is just like ours.

I think he is talking about the Sampradaya. My freind got the scoop on what happened years ago with the devotees blowing themselves up. According to the Haribolers Jagad Guru told them it was not a good idea to employ violence they should just chant the Holy Name. But they went against the instruction, the result being they blew themselves up.

Srila Prabhupada said he was not a 'pure devotee' but that was decades ago. Apparently he kept on his way and is now recognized by many as a bona-fide acharya. If anyone can show me some actual deviations from the philosophy I might be convinced he is not authorized. Otherwise I can't see discouraging anyone from hearing or trying to get his association as hard as that might be.

Pranams and excuse me Sri Govinda Das Prabhu, I don’t know so many things. You must at least be to the level of madyama devotee so please be compassionate to a kanista like myself Thank you for informing me of my spiritual status and my desire to be cheated. So far no one has given me such status. Now I know that at least I am some kind of a Vaishnava. Thank you very much. I will do my best to improve from this point.

I asked for some information on how the group or how the leader in particular deviated.

1. Please be kind enough to clarify what part of ISKCON Jagad Guru has gone in the opposite direction. Many have gone in the opposite direction. Please be more specific and detailed on what he chose to do the opposite of.

2. If J.G. is a bonafide guru then it is his perquisite concerning the number of rounds he gives his followers. Some in the Gaudiya Math claim Srila Prabhupada deviated. It is a kanistha mentality to argue over such details. According to Siddhanta the number of rounds given falls into the category of a detail that may change according to time place and circumstance. Therefore if he gives less rounds that could not be considered a deviation from the sampradaya. A bonafide acharya never changes any ABSOLUTE truths. However he MAY change many details. He may change many things according to his own mood. The mood of Srila Prabhupada was quite different than that of his guru. He changed quite a lot of details. The same argument you are using on this one can be used against Srila Prabhupada.


3. Please explain to me what Srila Prabhupadas mood of “devotees and demons” is and how they deviated that way. Maybe you have something here.



4. You say he initiated within the presence of Srila Prabhupada. That would surely be a deviation. But in the letter above Srila Prabhpada says, “Regarding Siddhasvarupananda, these things which you have heard are simply rumor and there is no substance. Siddhasvarupa does not want to take disciples..” If you have more evidence that in fact he did initiate disciples please let us see it. That would constitute a deviation. But Srila Prabhupada says he was not initiating and that was just a rumor. Please give us the proof.

5. How is a shaved head and carrying a danda a must to be a follower of Srila Prabhupada? George Harrison got plenty of people chanting but no shaved head or danda. Gaura Kisora Das Babaji and many leaders prior to him did not carry a danda or waterpot. In fact the practice had disappeared until the advent of Sarasvati Thakur. Again some say the greata Thakur deviated by bringing back sannyasa. I don't think you have anything on this one.

6. What women sits on the Vyasasana? That would be a deviation.

I look forward to some concrete evidence of deviation if it exists and thanks for taking the time to help me.

>What women sits on the Vyasasana? That would be a deviation?

Why that would be a deviation?

Actually modern day ISKCON is much closer to Siddha's group then it was way back when. Certainly not everyone here can say that every ISKCON man shaves the head and lives in the temple. Hey they would even select a GbC man knowing they do not follow some of the regs. That should say something.

So he fell down from Sannyasa and married a disciple. Certainly that is a deviation. That he watered down the process is another deviation. That he never actually surrendered to Srila Prabhupada is another.

Why doesn’t any of our leaders challenge these charlatans! Instead they turn a blind eye. Another big Gaudiya Math Guru who took at least 1,000 of our devotees and turned them against ISKCON is being courted by our leaders!!! They grovel at his feet!!!! That guru brings the most intimate pastimes of Krishna into the open and now devotees who can’t even control sex desire think they are qualified for Gopi Bhava!!!

So sometimes I wonder if our own leaders are any better than a Siddhaswarup. Excuse me for the offense if it is one.

I know the Haribolers "Gurukulis" run a animation series called Ninjai and also a video series called Karmakula
http://www.ninjai.com/

They did not appreciate me pointing out the similarities of their cartoon to Vedic/Krishna culture. In the cartoon the boy vegetarian ninja, Ninjai, offers his food to God. He talks about Karma. He is looking for a guy named Maha. On one episode he stops his heart by meditation and prayer and taken to a place where he meets this Maha. On the way he passes a temple that looks exactly like the Jagannatha temple. The logo as you will immediately notice is Hanuman. Also before each cartoon he states "Who am I, Where did I come from?" (Prayers of Brahma?) They run a nice discussion group on their site but don't like it if anyone points out that cartoon is specifically Krishna related they will kick you out.

and if they kick the Vaishnavas off the forum for being honest I consider that offensive.

portnoy:Here is their official website: http://www.scienceofidentity.org/

I invite anybody to check the section 'religious fanaticism'. What an absolute load of nonsense. How anybody can suggest this man is anything but a cheater is beyond me. Where did the money for his big house come from?

> How dare you offend Guru Dave!

Are you talking about Nrsimha-Dave who is in England and who knows that your broke some instruments in Brighton temple?

>Is it effective?

According to Urmila they are very successful, its expanding and yes people become devotees. Who said he was a charlatan? He is a schism, so is Trippurari Sw etc but schisms are often are very successful.

Kula Pavana and ccd,

Are you saying we should discount the fact he gave up sannyasa and married a disciple? Because if we accept that he is a bona-fide acharya we must accept his behavior is correct.

My friend tells me he gave up sannyasa because it 'got in the way' of his preaching!!! Sannyasa was instituted for the sole purpose of preaching!!! But now it is a hindrance???

So you think an acharya can give up sannyasa huh????

Rodney:Kula Pavana and ccd, Are you saying we should discount the fact he gave up sannyasa and married a disciple?

That is not even a fall down. Prabhupada encouraged some of his sannyasis to get married (Rupanuga and Pusta Krishna) and married himself Bali mardana (some GV fanatics did not like it;-) Rasikananda and others in our line gave it up, so that is not a reason to reject a person, we have ISKCON gurus who marry a disciple (RSd). That just does not seem to be a problem unless you are a fanatic.

Can you give refs that Nityananda, Rasikananda and Shyamananda were sannyasis?

Nityananda Prabhu maintained Himself as a brahmacari; He never took sannyasa. CC 1.5.149 p., also CC 2.3.85 p.

I meant formal sannyas. They were more like babajis.