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VEDA: I guess the praise refers to what praiseworthy they did, not to _everything_ they did.If they extended this approach to Narayana Maharaja and other GM devotees I would consider it a fair deal. ----------------- Accusing an 89 year old life-long devotee (who spent the last 58 years of his life as a sannyasi) of having 'sahajiya tendencies' for daring to focus on lila smaranam in his classes given to HIS DISCIPLES is unbelievable stupidity and ill will.
Nrsingha d:where Sri Guru Acarya is referred to as 'man' is example of the subtle mininimalist mentality so typical of the neo GM. No? Ysvt.You should be careful using that line of logic. What you attribute to the "neo GM" is a standard feature of the ISKCON GBC-approved Prabhupada-lilamrita, which repeatedly describes ISKCON's founder-acarya as "a man." Even during Srila Prabhupada's presence, Songs of the Vaishnava Acaryas was published, which referred to Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura as "a man." Was Srila Prabhupada an offender to his grand-spiritual-master? Of course not! The fact is, the spiritual master is not a COMMON man. Depending on the particular case, he is either God-as-man, or man-as-God's-supreme-servitor. Treating the spiritual master as a COMMON man is a grave offense. The spiritual master is a man, but he is a man who is "as good as God." However, let's also remember that it is also an offense to treat any Vaishnava as a COMMON man. It is not that because we are fervent enough in praising Guru Maharaja, we gain carte blanche to abuse our Goduncles, Godnephews or Godbrothers.
Nrsingha d:This quote refers to an Acharya of the Gaudiya Matha institution, not a guru in the typical sense of the word. ----------------- Being ignorant of the tradition, most Western disciples of SP confuse these two terms and engage in all kinds of battles between themselves. Prabhupada did not want a single Acharya in Iskcon, but he wanted his disciples to be gurus. How hard is that to understand? --------------- Instead of focusing on preaching, his disciples are embroiled in the most idiotic debates over the guru issue, while the newcomers look at them like they are infected with some strange mind-numbing virus.portnoy: As for the present system of "anybody can be a guru as long as there is no objection from the GBC" ... I have some difficulty reconciling that with what Srila Prabhupada wrote to Rupanuga. This is the excerpt I refer to: "If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected." .This is referring to an Arcarya. Isn't it? Not a regular Guru because even BSST authorised certain disciples who where going to England to iniatiate Hari-nam. I agree though that no regular Guru should have the pretense and profile of Acarya. However that might be down to dumb disciples who can't or do not want to see the obvious difference. Thanks for association prabhu. Jaya Swami Srila Prabhupada! Ysvt.
portnoy: The deeper issue is that eleven of my godbrothers announced that they were appointed to be not just gurus --- but pure devotees. That's the issue. They sat their conditioned asses on Vyasa Asanas, took ridiculous names and amassed thousands of disciples and tends of thousands of dollars.Who let them do that? And why were they able to do so? Because by and large devotees have become brainwashed into believing just about anything some Iskcon 'authority' was telling them, despite how contrary to the common sense, logic, and direct perception it was. It was the culture of: stop thinking and just surrender to the 'spiritual authority'.... I never believed Harikesa was 'good as God' or 'pure devotee' - I simply accepted him as a senior devotee, placed by Prabhupada in the position of initiating guru... just the facts, ma'm... -------------------- And my point was that the guru debate within Iskcon is FAR from over or concluded. I see it pop-up just about everywhere everyday. ------------------- Btw. Iskcon started falling apart not just because of unqualified gurus sitting on vyasasanas... there were dozens of other reasons as well. Iskcon was a textbook 'Lord of the Flies' case... bunch of boys on a deserted island playing imitation life...
sri_govinda_das:Please explain why you are not following the order of guru and krishna and taking disciples,or are you just intent on just complaining?How many disciples do you have, oh Guru SGD?
sri_govinda_das:I am a guru for seven to twenty followers prabhu,but we are from maori culture so actually soon it might grow to thousands because my great-great grandfather was paramount cheif here in New Zealand.....but i am not enviously trying to find fault,where non-exists'' mung''.Fall downs were also actually wide spread amongst the Gaudiya math also!''Ananta vasudeva '' even became bewildered to the SUBLIME authenticity of our guru parampara.But because they are practically impotent in the western world,does anybody care?Seven to twenty? That's quite a gap, do you have problems counting or do you have part time followers, oh Guru Maharaj? Forgive me, I'm not fault finding. My intelligence is so low that I cannot comprehend your statements.
sri_govinda_das:So kula pavanna and portnoy why don't you just do the same as your godbrothers, since you are Prabhupada disciples.....take thousands of disciples and millions of dollars and serve krishna!There is no need for me to take any disciples. For the last 30 years I have been helping hunderds of new people join our movement and helping hundreds of initiated devotees stay in Krsna consciousness because their gurus were not really doing their job. I have translated and printed thousands of books, established a couple of temples, personally collected tens of thousands of dollars for Iskcon. I am happy to work in that capacity. -------------------------------- I appreciate the good work some Iskcon gurus are doining, but I also see serious problems in our society which must be addressed in order to ensure survival of this mission. Disrespect to other Vaishnava missions and their leaders is one of such problems. Before you find faults with others you should closely examine your own pile of dung.
sri_govinda_das:Recently a freind went to a gaudiya math meeting,was very surprised to be offered initiation by a representative of Govinda maharaja.She gratefully accepted and received a spiritual name ......but has not really done any other service for the matha.Neither does she chant a set number of rounds.Yet she is initiated according to the devotees of their matha....Believe it or not, but this is pretty much how GM operated from the earliest days of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. He initiatied about 25000 people and only a small fraction of them chanted more than 4 rounds per day (which was a standard for the hari-nama initiation back then).