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How do we deal with the management machine?iskcon or gaudiya !
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Recently i had an extreme obstacle appear which threatened to shatter the future of my humble families involvement locally within the iskcon society.I was able to sort it out however i wondered later what would a ''nice devotee'' have done with out the creative visualizations which i used to safegard my families from unworthy non-devotional practices?Most probably he would pack up and leave,......leave it it in the ''too hard basket''.Even i felt discouraged,angry....when faced with the almost impersonal corporate mood and assembly of devotees...which is usually the iskcon local body.At least that is how it is when you appear to be'' the problem'',and you are unqualified to properly deal with such personal rectification...a subsequent feeling of worthlessness seems inevitable
My wife said to me ,since she is samoan-maori descent that you white people are brutal....''If you can't get your way ,just slice slice slice...just destroy us soft hearted devotees!Why do you think there are very few ''whanau''[maori for people of the local soil...tanga tu whenua],within iskcon after 40 odd years in New Zealand,she commented?She continued to answer in her particular shrill....Because its a white person thing ...a Caucasian ...impersonal thing!We give you our service...we give you our hearts and you shit on us!You have no real love just business.....take,take ,take..... callous eat us alive if we do not agree...is it not...she demanded!
So with that wonderful start to my day, i thought well how about all the times i have had to be very determined ,''creatively agile'' just to stay connected to Srila PRABHUPADA's iskcon society.After several moments of meditation i thought maybe others would appreciate some personal, realised internal appreciations ....useful strategies to possible give insight and help,before one gets ''banned or marginalised''.....So can those amongst us help ....hare krishna! -
Unfortunately in any institution including Iskcon, its always the institution that is placed before the individual and quite often the local authorities wield the power in such a way that they feel you must totally surrender to them else you are in total Maya. They may have the position to manage because they are the most qualified in a managerial sense, but not always, sometimes they have the position because of their years of service or because of friends in high places and quite often they do not have the qualifications or the personality to lead a group of people.
Cultural differences are important because it is very deep conditioning, westerners tend to put on their hob nail boots and stomp over everything, its the western way to upset and confront everything because we are mostly concerned only with our own individual cause, we are more impersonal and rarely do we care what others think about ourselves and rarely does it give us cause for concern unless we stand to lose something by it. Westerners are impatient, brutal, intolerant, selfish, self righteous, bigots and full of hypocrisy. However all that said Westerners are great pioneers, imaginative, creative and can be dogmatic in their pursuit of excellence.
Ancient cultures are more sensitive to other people and care more about what others think, they are alot more humble, willing to serve and help and they understand that to sacrifice ones own needs is far more noble. They are more family and group orientated and more into sharing their happiness and prefer to spend time with others. Even Srila Prabhupada said to his western devotees be-careful how you handle Indians, they are very sensitive and if you offend them they will never forget this and it is often impossible to repair the relationship.
Unfortunately the management of any institution rarely takes into account the culture from which a devotee has come from, as we all know our early childhood conditioning will continue to affect us for our whole lives, this doesn't mean we cannot change or work around our differences but don't expect any wisdom from management, usually they have a saying "Our way or the highway"
I saw so many nice devotee's kicked out of Iskcon because of local authorities, either they were deemed as a threat to the local authority or they simply didn't like them. If you wish to stay in their local zone you have no choice but to bow down to that authority, yes you can be creative and suggest a different type of service or appeal to their higher intellect but at the end of the day, its in their power not yours to decide. Few local leaders display the qualities that would make me want to surrender to them and probably explains why I don't see them making many new devotees hardly any, in the last 15-20 years. India seems to be quite a bit different because you have more Indians dealing with Indians. -
My wife said to me ,since she is samoan-maori descent that you white people are brutal....''If you can't get your way ,just slice slice slice...just destroy us soft hearted devotees!Why do you think there are very few ''whanau''[maori for people of the local soil...tanga tu whenua],within iskcon after 40 odd years in New Zealand,she commented?She continued to answer in her particular shrill....Because its a white person thing ...a Caucasian ...impersonal thing!We give you our service...we give you our hearts and you shit on us!You have no real love just business.....take,take ,take..... callous eat us alive if we do not agree...is it not...she demanded!sri_govinda_das:
Your wife is absolutely right. What to do about it? Start your own temple with some good LOCAL people, and NEVER, EVER let outsiders touch it! Don't incorporate with Iskcon, start your own non-profit organization and keep everything above board. The GBC types and their minions will always walk all over you IF YOU LET THEM. I was a manager all my life and Iskcon has the worst management I have ever seen. The structure is antiquated, inefficient, lacking in checks and balances, and with very little accountability. And te people in it are mostly unqualified, both technically and morally to be the leaders. -
I've done quite a bit of research in this area, specifically through the GBC resolutions and ISKCON Managment Guidelines etc. My conclusion is that there are many excellent and practical suggestions to address all the problems management generally has and to establish an accountable management system. But unfortunately the GBC's don't ensure they are being implemented, or many devotees don't know about them, or have never bothered to read them, or having read them consider them impractical or threatening because they would make the management accountable.
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I've done quite a bit of research in this area, specifically through the GBC resolutions and ISKCON Managment Guidelines etc. My conclusion is that there are many excellent and practical suggestions to address all the problems management generally has and to establish an accountable management system. But unfortunately the GBC's don't ensure they are being implemented, or many devotees don't know about them, or have never bothered to read them, or having read them consider them impractical or threatening because they would make the management accountable.deena:
If the GBCs don't follow their own guidelines, what do you expect? How many of them present financial accounts for example? From what I know, just a small minority, and these accounts are sketchy at best, and not independently verified. Iskcon is pretty much their private plantation. One of the worst things management wise, was making these guys GBC's for life. That destroyed any hope for accountability from these club members. -
In Buddhism, they taught us two very important things:
1. As aging and death are rolling in on us, what else should be done but Dhamma-conduct, right conduct, skillful deeds, meritorious deeds?
(From the sutta on the simile of the mountains - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn03/sn03.025.than.html. It's worth reading, the language is very descriptive.)
2. A practitioner should think: "Even if others do not train themselves, I will train myself. Even if others do not work toward the supreme goal, I will work toward the supreme goal." - This can be extended in more detail - e.g. "Even if others do not keep their promises, I will keep my promises" etc.
I think the same spirit applies here. -
Yes. 'The only person who can discourage me is myself.' (actually my material conditioning)
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True Veda, but who is that advanced to see it that way at all times?
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Yes. 'The only person who can discourage me is myself.' (actually my material conditioning)VEDA:
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Absolutely agree with this statement, one does not have to be discouraged one only has to get creative and broad minded. This is exactly what is happening and people are generally giving Iskcon a miss and going direct to Srila Prabhupada's books and then steering their own course or seeking association/guidance at other Gaudiya Vaisnava establishments. Its actually quite common these days. While Iskcon waves it finger at all these people that are either no longer in Iskcon or never joined them in the first place they never stop to ask the question why? They never consider the fact that the leaders and GBC members sit in their ivory towers passing down the rules that rarely apply to themselves and quite often don't apply to regional authorities either.[/p]
[p]
I left Iskcon behind many many years ago and I have only one regret, I should have done it a lot sooner! One must also be aware that it is not just an Iskcon only issue, it is generally the same in all religious/spiritual organisations and even more so where it is a young institution and the founder has passed on.[/p]
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In the end they cater for the Institution and they are more concerned about the Institutions survival than they are about your spiritual life. You are just an expendable asset, to be used up in the process.[/p]
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Anyone who is really serious about their spiritual life will not get too entangled with any institution, they are far too limiting. I don't care what they say, Srila Prabhupada lives in his instructions and books not in the concrete or politics of some institution.[/p] -
My dear manasi-seva,please accept my kind regards , i respectfully disagree with your positions stated.Especially on performing...''the first stages of devotional service''.
In the nectar of devotion,'page 20,'Srila Prabhupada comments ''when we wish to develop our innate capacity for devotional service there are certain processes which,by our accepting and executing them,will cause that dormant capacity to be invoked.Such practice is called sadhana -bhakti''.
Further down the same page srila Prabhupada suggests because of our previous ''Vikarma''activities...we must practice sadhana-bhakti-which means to offer ''mangala- aratrika''[deity worship] in the morning,refrain from certain material activities,offer obeisances to the spiritual master and follow many rules and regulations.....Narada muni mentions this sadhana bhakti...srimad bhagavatam,seventh canto,ist chapter,verse30.''My deak king ,one has to fix ones mind on krishna by any means''That is called krishna conciousness.It is the duty of the spiritual master,to find ways and means for his disciple to fix his mind on Krishna.that is the beginning of sadhana bhakti.....
So how manasi-seva do you expect neophyte devotees to possibly become fully submerged in sadana bhakti outside the temple?How do they take shelter of a guru and be surrendered to the guru...outside the temple as you suggest without an authorised intermediary at least?Where can you hope to see the deity of Radha and krishna at 4.30 am ,without going to an iskcon temple in the western world?After which ideally we should chant at least 16 rounds!Hear the sri-mad bhagavatam and take prasadam in the association of like minded devotees.
As an experienced former iskcon devotee,manasi-seva you will appreciate that neophyte devotees have not performed devotional service for a considerable time like you and i have!Hence they need the many essential services and devotional trainings which only older devotees are capable of intimately offering to them!
After 3-4 years of temple sadhana possibly they might last.....but without this essential iskcon training initially what hope have they?Practically none is a fair estimation!And what hope have neophyte devotees of assimulating the unique flavour and preaching mood of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada without the mercy of his disciples and empowered preachers?Hearing their specific transcendental ''anxiety'' to please guru and krishna....can they just fall upon this unique iskcon solider like preaching mood by mistake without his own devotees?Obviously not!This special mood is illustrated by Srila Prabhupada himself in a personal practical implementation within such essential books as A Transcendental Diary..by Hari sauri das.....Practically if one is sincere ....even understanding the several practical problems with the ISKCON machine itself,why would you choose to take shelter anywhere else! -
Yes SGD, I don't disagree with what you say in theory, I know all of the sales pitches *smiles*. But all institutions have their institutional problems, if you can work with them fine, but ultimately even those who are fully willing to submit to the institution will become frustrated by its impersonal dealings with the rank and file, as you yourself have stated in your opening of this question.
Unfortunately Srila Prabhupada is no longer guiding the institution, we know this by the issues that have taken place, so now its up to his devotees that are left behind. I just hope the leaders of Iskcon find the wisdom to treat the rank and file devotees with love and respect and show a great example that will enthuse others to follow.
Don't misunderstand me I am not totally Anti-Iskcon, I just feel the leaders have to become more open and transparent in their dealings and they need to fully submit themselves to the rules they create. The GBC also must travel their zones and have contact with the rank and file and listen to what is happening on a grass roots level, they need to venture out of their ivory towers (not just physically but actually listen to others) Then and only then will the obvious hypocrisy subside and true devotion can have its place. However when you think about it the GBC will never resort to listening to the rank and file, because they think they are fully self realized and orders are passed down the chain, they are never passed up the chain, so Iskcon seems to have inbuilt failure mechanisms, but hope springs eternal!
By the way I am not going to get caught up in statements that you make like below as this is getting off topic:
>>even understanding the several practical problems with the ISKCON machine itself, why would you choose to take shelter anywhere else!
Many thousands of devotees do take shelter in other places, they have the right and free will to do it, enough said on that point. -
Thank you manasi-seva for your genuine ''siksa'',which shows a matured vision born of austerity and good intentions.
Interesting what happened practically in my own case.Previously when devotees did not share my mood at a previous occasion....i was merely banned ...or instructed that i was not welcome which was transformed into being banned when i did not fight it!
However this time'' iskcons [local management]machine'' was faced with an extremely determined and battle hardened opponent.I was asked to formally send a ''written defence '' within seven days!I immediately produced a coherent and reasonably aggressive statement of what happened.Detailing practically what took place....but also pointing out how i was challenged personally ,insulted and that we sorted it out amongst ourselves as men do!Matter sorted out!
However my impression was that they were unused to my novel,possibly overly honest appraisal of the situation.However i also noticed a more structured response from management which meant that they were infact following some procedures.....hence a marked improvement of a significant nature in my view!
Also when dealing with such a structure it pays to be confident in your every move,''sincerity of purpose'' tends to produce a''compelling'' if not a perfect case!So i was informed it was settled quickly ....without further hassle or unnecessary consternation.My local GBC is infact Prabhuvishnu swami,though he is not my sort of leader ,he appears sincere and genuine .I was definitely willing to take it personally into his region of inspection and auspicious vision.....which possibly meant a hard fight for my opponents was necessary if they were to succeed against me! In which case because he was personally present, also meant they risked being accountable to a higher authority immediately.....being unable to control ''all and eventually possible outcomes''......good or bad!Which i feel was a significant factor possibly in it being set aside...and dismissed. -
Dear Sri Govinda Prabhu,
In your post that opens this topic, you complain that the Caucasian devotees have taken the approach, "'If you can't get your way ,just slice slice slice...just destroy us soft hearted devotees." How ironic, then, that some would say your posts about Narayana Maharaja and others are a perfect example of the "slice" approach, antithetical to the soft-hearted approach of a devotee.
As a result, I humbly suggest that you thoroughly investigate the ritvik philosophy, as well as the philosophy of at least one of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers (probably not Narayana Maharaja, given your earlier comments).
Why? Because when I look at your harsh and ill-informed posts in some other threads on this forum, I begin to understand why your local temple leaders may be trying to push you out. The time is likely to come, sooner rather than later, when you will be held accountable for the results of your "preaching" and your ISKCON authorities will determine that you are more of a liability than an asset.
What will you do then, when you are banned from ISKCON association? Will you abandon the entire philosophy and go back to Maori tribal beliefs? Or will you persevere with Krishna consciousness? There are some very nice Vaishnavas outside of ISKCON who hold Srila Prabhupada in the highest esteem -- you might investigate the mission of Sripad Bhaktivaibhava Puri Maharaja, or of Sripad Bhaktisundar Govinda Maharaja. Or if you are determined to "slice" all of Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers the way ISKCON slices you, there remain the ritviks. who at least hold up their understanding of Srila Prabhupada as the ideal for all.
So, that's my advice about how Sri Govinda Prabhu should deal with the management machine. If you will not introspect and see that you are alienating other devotees even more aggressively than your local managers are alienating you, then the best thing you could be doing is looking for the sangha you will need to keep up your good association after ISKCON inevitably bans you. -
Sorry my dear tattva das thank you for your ''sincere ''opinion about my devotional service.But we are not going to allow such Narayanna maharaja nonsense to be paraded as proper devotional activity!Thank you about your concerns,however firstly my ''siksa guru'' informed me thus............[On another occasion at Bbsr in 1995, I personally asked Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja, “How should I understand Narayana Maharaja?” to which Gour Govinda Maharaja answered (with a dissatisfied facial expression) , “He (Narayana Maharaja) has some jnana! Better for devotees to associate with senior devotees within ISKCON, even though they may not have as much jnana, because at least they are Authorized.”...''MURALI KRSNA SWAMI'']
So since my neophyte devotees will appreciate some qualified informed opinion...i humbly submitted their opinions!Since he is not ''authourised'' is this not important ....!Since he is not faithful to orthodox vaisnava teachings,rather taking siksa from Caste brahmana and sahaja-ism sources!is this not important for young devotees to u8nderstand?
Yes Tattva das there are devotees outside our line ,however are they empowered?At a village level possibly .....it would be wonderful if they became more so ,however because they have failed to appreciate the unique ''Bhaktivedanta swami'' Yukta-vairagya utilisation....they are at best struggling to establish a preaching ''bridgehead'' in the western world.
However tattva das i am not personally reliant on my local iskcon centre,because my guru and local GBC have encouraged us to start our own Iskcon centres!Which several local devotees have establishing a gopals restaurant in our town.My concern was primarily for newer devotees prabhu.
Infact several of my godbrothers have started ''initiating'' their own devotees already ...so our sublime parampara line carries happily on!We have ''substantial qualified association'' tattva das ,thank you for your concern.But to further encourage the proper appreciation of how iskcon is superior in preaching dynamics and authorised i humbly submit his divine graces genuine sentiments and strong opinion. Srila Prabhupada on his Godbrothers -
Prabhupada: He cannot make any comment. These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tirtha Maharaja’s party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Tamala Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders.
Tamala Krsna: What about Sridhara Maharaja?
Prabhupada: SRIDHARA MAHARAJA BELONGED TO THE BAGH BAZAAR PARTY. And I was living aloof. My Guru Maharaja approved. He said, “It is better that he is aloof from them.”
Tamala Krsna: He could understand that his disciples were not…
Prabhupada: No, he was very sorry. AT THE LAST STAGE HE WAS DISGUSTED.
72-08-26. Letter: Gaurasundara
All along I HAVE BEEN DISCOURAGED IN EVERY WAY BY MY GODBROTHERS, but still I have stuck to my duty, keeping my Spiritual Master always in front.
72-09-09. Letter: Krsna dasa
MY GODBROTHERS ALWAYS DISCOURAGED ME BUT I DID NOT GIVE UP, I am doing my duty and always keeping my spiritual master in front. Even there is some difficulty or hardship, or even my godbrothers may not cooperate or there may be fighting, still, I must perform my duty to my spiritual master and not become discouraged and go away, that is my weakness.
760618rc.tor Conversations
Prabhupada: Daily night. And he was shocked. ONE OF MY GAUDIYA MATHA GODBROTHERS, BIG, HE BECAME THE HEAD OF THIS BHAG BAZAAR GAUDIYA MATHA. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.
Pusta Krsna: New?
Prabhupada: Paramour. And the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand: “Who is this man?” So he protested and said, “I shall tell all these things to my father.” And he was killed.
Pusta Krsna: The boy was killed?
Prabhupada: By the mother.
Hari-sauri: She murdered him?
Prabhupada: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gaudiya Matha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tirtha Maharaja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupada was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that “I may die.” So he made a scrap paper, that “In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gaudiya Matha Institute.” That’s all. So this Kunja Babu kept this. There are many long histories. SO ONE OF THE SO-CALLED TRUSTEES WAS THIS VASUDEVA. So he died, his end was like this.
Pusta Krsna: His son was killed, isn’t it?
Prabhupada: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.
Pusta Krsna: He killed himself, oh.
Prabhupada: Naturally, he became shocked, that “This is my family life–the wife is prostitute and son is killed. What is the value of my life?” This was his spiritual realization. Just see. (laughs) AND HE WAS MADE THE CHIEF, AND ONE OF THE SUPPORTER WAS SRIDHARA MAHARAJA.
Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva Sridhara?
Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.
Pusta Krsna: Am I mis…? You had told me once, I’m not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. YOU SAID THAT VASUDEVA, IT WAS KNOWN FACT THAT HE WAS HOMOSEX?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: HE WAS HOMOSEX AND SEX, EVERYTHING.
68-02-17. Letter: Pradyumna ...
So yes iskcon has its problems,but all genuine lines do ...even the gaudiya matha and even Sridhara swami's team are ''blighted'' tattva das as is illustrated above.However iskcon is a huge worldwide society....so we lack culture so our problems are ''advertised almost'',not hidden away like the gaudiya matha groups! -
760618rc.tor Conversationssri_govinda_das:
Prabhupada: Daily night. And he was shocked. ONE OF MY GAUDIYA MATHA GODBROTHERS, BIG, HE BECAME THE HEAD OF THIS BHAG BAZAAR GAUDIYA MATHA. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.
Pusta Krsna: New?
Prabhupada: Paramour. And the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand: “Who is this man?” So he protested and said, “I shall tell all these things to my father.” And he was killed.
Pusta Krsna: The boy was killed?
Prabhupada: By the mother.
Hari-sauri: She murdered him?
Prabhupada: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my Godbrother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gaudiya Matha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tirtha Maharaja was a trustee, and another Godbrother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupada was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that “I may die.” So he made a scrap paper, that “In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gaudiya Matha Institute.” That’s all. So this Kunja Babu kept this. There are many long histories. SO ONE OF THE SO-CALLED TRUSTEES WAS THIS VASUDEVA. So he died, his end was like this.
Pusta Krsna: His son was killed, isn’t it?
Prabhupada: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.
Pusta Krsna: He killed himself, oh.
Prabhupada: Naturally, he became shocked, that “This is my family life–the wife is prostitute and son is killed. What is the value of my life?” This was his spiritual realization. Just see. (laughs) AND HE WAS MADE THE CHIEF, AND ONE OF THE SUPPORTER WAS SRIDHARA MAHARAJA.
Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva Sridhara?
Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.
Pusta Krsna: Am I mis…? You had told me once, I’m not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. YOU SAID THAT VASUDEVA, IT WAS KNOWN FACT THAT HE WAS HOMOSEX?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: HE WAS HOMOSEX AND SEX, EVERYTHING.
The only problem is... it never heppened like that. This story is not based on historical facts. Read more here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/18502294/Ananta-Vasudeva -
Just another example of SGD posting on topics he knows nothing about, his research stops at the point that he gets ammunition to support his blasphemy.
Thank you Kula Pavana for posting a link to this information. It just goes to show that these issues should be left alone they happened along time ago and the accounts of history vary dramatically. By engaging in debates on these topics one has to speculate and potentially cause great harm to ones spiritual life due to Vaisnava Aparadha. Many of these devotees mentioned are eternal associates of BSST. -
sgd doesn't just use the "slice slice slice" approach ..... another favorite weapon of his seems to be the "cut cut cut / paste paste paste" strategy.
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Sorry to find fault.......but how as a very new devotee ,should i see your behaviour?When from my low position i think you offend our ever wellwisher his grace Srila bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada or at least minimise his writings or his veiws with your last correspondence manasi seva prabhu,how is using my siksa guru bir krishna das goswami to falsely try and prove Srila Prabhupadas personal veiws to be mistaken......how can he be mundane? when you are no longer apparently his ever wellwisher,sorry but your mood seems motivated by your teams aversion to this other devotee.....sri das;how can my gurus be wrong.....just because it serves your purposes?please explain according to our mutual teachings.....i simply do not understand your poor logic?
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Why do I get the feeling that this yamal_arjuna_das is none other than Mr. sri_govinda_das reincarnated? I would bet anything that we're hearing from either a proxy, alter ego, nom de plume, pseudonym, or perhaps "son of ......" Definitely a sequel ... complete with the underscores in the name, the spellings and what really gives it away --- referring to "teams." Oh yeah -- no doubt about it -- he's baaaaack!!
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Yes its amazing isn't it yamala_arjuna_das is a new devotee his account was created 2 hours ago and he immediately tunes into the exact same posts that SGD was posting into and takes exception with the same people SGD did...LMHO...and as Hashama says same bad punctuation, bad spelling etc. Very convincing SGD!
100% yamala_arjuna_das = Sri_Govinda_Das
Tell your story walking SGD...bye! -
...i think you offend our ever wellwisher his grace Srila bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada or at least minimise his writings or his veiws with your last correspondence manasi seva prabhu,how is using my siksa guru bir krishna das goswami to falsely try and prove Srila Prabhupadas personal veiws to be mistaken......yamala_arjuna_das:
No need to attack Manasi Seva Prabhu, he actually showed great tact and restraint in his comment. The fault is all mine... ------------ I have spent a great deal of time researching the Ananta Vasudeva story Srila Prabhupada told his disciples. Based on all available accounts from inside and outside Gaudiya Matha, the story SP told is - at best - simply based on wild gossip, and at worst (and most likely) - based on a deliberate attempt to smear Ananta Vasudeva by his godbrothers loyal to Gaudiya Matha. These guys fought very fierce battles among themselves back then... ------------------- I have no reason to believe that it was SP who invented this story, but there is no doubt in my mind that this story is completely FALSE. The only true part in it is that AV's son died early... ------------ Some modern Gaudiya devotees think that it is OK to fabricate a lie IF it's purpose is to 'serve Krsna'. Of course they are the ones who determine what 'serves Krsna' at that particular moment. Thus in the name of serving Krsna or serving His mission LIES are invented and spread around on purpose... Have you seen it done in Iskcon? In the last 30 years I have seen it done many times... Still, this was not something unique to Iskcon, because it was done in the past as well. -
Sorry but how can you be a follower of Swami maharaja ....when you think his vision is gossip....or village talk ,though i am merely a servant of Radharani,why do you allow your own mistaken conceptions to be portrayed as spiritual realisation manasi -seva prabhu....everyone in my line of BR Shridara goswami has a very different mood and appreciation. ''Our objective is to establish that certain "communally authoritative rules" regarding the nature and role of the spiritual master are applicable to our discussion, and that such rules constitute an important element in considering the history of iskcon after 1977. They include (1) the indispensability of the spiritual master; (2) the fundamental identity of the initiating and instructing spiritual masters; (3) the grave repercussions that ensue from rejecting the spiritual master or his instructions; (4) the dire consequences that result from vilifying a Vaishnava. We will proceed to establish these four rules before considering the history of the institution.''I feel your narayanna maharaja team suitably transgresses and villifies our siksa and diksa guru!Please stop such offensive mentalitys forth with!
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Unbelievable! Can somebody help this guy? He's crumbling to pieces before our very eyes? I look at his picture and envision him being tied up in a straight jacket and being shot up with sedatives while screaming "Narayana Maharaja's team is bad ... don't join Narayana Maharaja's team .. they're on the wrong team .. their team is offensive .... they are very bad .... my name is sri govinda das .. my name is yamal arjuna das ... my name is lal lasamayi devi ..... I want my mommy ... take me back to my team .. take me back to my tribe - they need their chief ... I wanna go home ....please, please, please ..."
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. For the twice-born the fire (Agni) is a representative of God. The Supreme Lord resides in the
heart of His devotees. Those of average intelligence (alpa-buddhi or kanista-adhikari) see God only
in His sri-murti (deity form), but those of broad vision see the Supreme Lord everywhere.
Such a sweet quote from chanakya pandit is similiar to bhagavad gita's.chapter 15 verse 15" sarvasya ca ham hrdi sannivisto....'',I am seated in everyones heart.and from me come remembrance,knowledge and forgetfulness.By all the veda's i am to be known.Indeed ,i am the compiler of vedanta,and the knower of the vedas.So why not see this in connection with krishna for us to learn from hashama ? -
You are wrong kula pavanna prabhu,however since you are obviously not an iskcon devotee any longer...let me offer a simple truth to those starting their devotional lives.Without humility and common sense you will row and row your boat back to godhead......literally forever and forever without pulling up the anchor,or using the sails....which are the unwanted material desires within your heart called anartha's and the blessings of your guru and the archarya's.you will go no where fast!Such over intelligence is very much a proud trait to be exstinguished by bowing down and offering obeisances to all the vaisnava's ,especially the Prabhupada direct disciples whom personally served his divine grace AC Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada. looks like an interesting site.....failed today only distributed one science of self realisation in two hours!But there is always tommorrow....all glories to bir krishna goswami .....gaura bhakta vrinda
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In this Discussion
- Baker March 2010
- borokrsnadasa March 2010
- deena March 2010
- Hashama March 2010
- Kula-pavana March 2010
- manasi_seva March 2010
- Tattva das March 2010
- VEDA March 2010