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Philosophy: should I try to discourage a relative taking initiation of radhanath swami

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    • CommentAuthorkes
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010
     
    A close relative has taken the decision to finally get initiated by RS and given the stories you hear about RS and the disarray in the iskcon guru system I feel compelled to advise him not to go ahead but I also don't want to bewilder/ discourage/disturb his spiritual life. I feel he is very happy about the matter but might get hurt in the long run. Also given that ritvik system has a lot in its favour , he does have an alternative. So should I be actively trying to do something and if so what would be the best thing. He is going to go through with this in 2 weeks time.
    • CommentAuthormung
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010
     
    • CommentAuthormanasi_seva
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010 edited
     
    If I was that close relative, it may hurt me a little to realize the person I was building faith in was bogus, but down the track I would thank you for it. Considering they are about to embark on a journey for the truth it would help them a whole lot if you gave it to them, sooner than later.

    If on the other hand I was that relative and later on my world came crumbling down because I found out the truth that my guru was bogus, that would hurt. But to also find out that you my close relative held back the truth from me, I would start to think I couldn't trust anyone in this world.

    Simply provide them with all the information and let them decide, if they still go ahead at least they do so having been warned.
    •  
      CommentAuthorportnoy
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010
     
    I would tell them to cultivate their relationship with Srila Prabhupada as siksa disciple by studying Prabhupada's books. Eventually -- the sincere student will be sent a diksa guru by the mercy of the Supreme Lord. It's not a mechanical process and there certainly is no rush.
    Thankful People: kes
  5.  
    Sri Govinda Das. That does not explain the swami sleeping with little girls.
  6.  
    Nrsingha d. What are you talking about? So you have no objection to what mung had said and his links? Who is accusing who and about what?
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2010 edited
     
    I had a friend who has a son, was aspiring a few years ago. So before allowing son to accept this guru there was a talk: "Are you sure, are you absolutely sure? Do you know you can not change after initiation?" I think there should be some talk like that with everyone. And definitely gurus should not be promoted, advertised or pushed in your face, and so no, you should not 'recommend' a guru, regardless of the status. It is disciples' and disciples' alone burden to make the choice.
    • CommentAuthoronkar
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2010
     
  9.  
    Yes so the only question remains now is is why did he leave it out of his autobiography? It would have made a great chapter in how things can go seriously wrong, and what he learnt from the one of the worst series of events that took place in Iskcon.

    Just seems hes more interested in showing a pleasant veneer rather then presenting the good the bad and the ugly.
    •  
      CommentAuthormaah!
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2010 edited
     
    Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my humble obeisances.

    There are negative effects on the guru for accepting an unqualified disciple and there are also negative effects on the disciple for taking an unqualified guru. Then, due to those malific effects, when the self-effulgent Acarya manifests again, neither are in a position to take advantage of Him and they lose out. Spend the dark night chanting and waiting for the rising sun, don't accept the glow-fly or lantern as Sun. Guru is to be accepted as good as God. That means we must pray and wait for the One who is as good as God--not accept any unqualified person and make mental adjustments that he is as good as God because we have chosen him. Not that, eventually seeing the low condition of the guru we have chosen, we degrade the position of guru to mean just a teacher. Persons who have done this even consider Srila Prabhupada an ordinary guru who became self-realized by the mercy of His Guru, on the level with other India-born gurus. These attitudes bring about Sri Guru Vaisnava Aparada which is highly counter-productive to our real good.

    Even if we accept and later abandon such an unqualified guru, there will still be subtle negative effects. It is something like breaking the tie of marriage with divorce..still there are debts, children, family, possessions, identities (individually, jointly and socially), memories, and other results of karrma accrued jointly.

    By following Srila Prabhupada's instructions and reading His unchanged books we will become purified and attract His divine guidance in our lives. By praying and crying for His real representative, we will get the Sri Guru who can give us Sri Krishna. Sriman Mahaprabhu's movement is for those who are begging for Sri Krishna, so if a guru is not in possession of Sri Krishna, we had better not get involved with him.

    The Real Nature of the Function of Guru

    "Individual souls are under the direction of Nityananda. They receive their service of Shri Gaurasundara, i.e., of Krishna, at His hands. Nityananda is not a jiva. He is Divinity. He is the ultimate source of the jiva. The jiva is a potency of Nityananda. No jiva can be the medium of the service of the Absolute to another jiva. The Absolute alone may communicate His service to the separable constituents of Himself. This is the real nature of the function of the guru.” Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur

    Those who have accepted bhogus gurus are infected with apasiddhanta. "If a man once takes the bad association of counterfeit Vaisnavas or non-Vaisnavas, he will never follow any beneficial instructions. He will only learn hypocrisy." Babaji Maharaja, Two Beyond Duality

    "As a result of an offense to the Holy Name or an offense in worshipping the Deity one will acheive three results: dharma (mundane piety), artha (material opulence), and kama (sense pleasure). These are actually misfortunes for the living entity. Our guru, Lord Nityananda, cheats pseudo-devotees by supplying their material wants but depriving them of love of God." Babaji Maharaja, Two Beyond Duality
    • CommentAuthoranandahari
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2010
     
    maah!:--not accept any unqualified person and make mental adjustments that he is as good as God because we have chosen him.
    the crux of it,imho.
    •  
      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2010
     
    Anyone who was married is not perfect (according to the acaryas)... (now what to speak of one who was not married;0)
    • CommentAuthoranandahari
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2010 edited
     
    really wish we could get ur direct association maah or u could point us in the direction of a like minded pure sanga.Never heard anyone speak thistruth the way u do.sincerely revolutionary!
    Thank you!
    • CommentAuthoranandahari
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2010 edited
     
    actual marriage is only for the Madhyamas.(according to the acaryas). Internalised and immediate.
    •  
      CommentAuthormaah!
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2010
     
    Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my humble obeisances.

    anandahariji,

    you can have the same revolutionary association i have, just pray for it and cry for it in your heart. He is in your heart and He knows Who represents Him externally. He makes the connection. He wants to make the connection, more than we do. Feel yourself helpless and hopeless and trust in Him. He is already reading your heart. i always think of how Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His devotees went with the heavy load to distribute, but found no takers; so rather than carry it back, they just gave it away for free.

    He gives it to the simple but not the crooked. "There are three types of crooked persons, dhana-kapati, bala-kapati, and prema-kapati. Dhana-kapatis are those persons who have much wealth, but they never spend it for the propagation of bhagavata-dharma. They never give donations to bhakta-bhagavata, the vaisnavas who are propagating bhagavat-dharma. They are the number one type of kapati, crooked person. They never spend there wealth for the service of Sri Guru, Krsna, or the vaisnavas, but instead they spend so much money in other ways. They are krpana, misers. They cannot understand bhagavata-dharma. They cannot get the mercy of Mahaprabhu. They cannot get prema, even though Mahaprabhu is offering it.

    The second type of kapati, crooked , duplicitous person, is the bala-kapati. He has strength, but even though Mahaprabhu's tumultuous kirtana is going on, he is not dancing in that kirtana. He has strength, but he doesn't dance, tandava-nrtya, in gaura-kirtana.

    The third type of kapati is the prema-kapati. He has not gotten prema, but he develops the abhimana, "Oh, I am a vaisnava. I am a great devotee." These three types of kapatis cannot get Mahaprabhu's mercy.They cannot understand bhagavata-dharma-tattva. They cannot get prema unless they give up their kapatya and enviousness and serve sadhu, guru and vaisnava --- niskapata-seva. They should render service without duplicity and get the mercy of Mahaprabhu. Even though Mahaprabhu is living prema indiscriminetly, they cannot get it."

    Without the mercy of such vaisnavas no one can understand bhagavata-dharma-tattva. Nirmatsaranam satam vedyam - only the vaisnavas who are nirmatsara, non-envious, can understand bhagavat-dharma-tattva.(S.B.1.1.2) Otherwise no one can understand the Bhagavata. The Bhagavata will never reveal Himself before them. Only those who are nirmatsara, and free from crookedness, kapatya, can understand bhagavat-dharma."

    Hare Krishna
    Thankful People: anandahari

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