Second initiation is containing the sampradaya mantras - Gopala mantra

Sampradaya vihinam ye mantras te nisphala matah

Diksa is described as :

tapa pundra tato nama mantro yagas ca pancama

Strictly speaking hari-nama is not mantra, it is nama, or the name of God mantra is given at second initiation.

Prabhupada introduced fire sacrifice to mantra upadesha of the first initiation, this is not a custom anywhere else, thus first initiation is very important, but it is with the second initiation that we received the mantra Prabhupada got in parampara from BSST and Gaurakisora Babaji Maharaja etc. 18 syllable Gopal mantra of Brahma Samhita.

That is all for now Mukunda Prabhu. ysccd

I like your example of Haridasa Thakura, he is also my favorite character in the lila of Mahaprabhu. However it is not certain that he only received harinama. Based on what I see in stories of the time, there was a ceremony (by Advaita Acarya) and he was given the name, the holy name and the mantra. The deity worship as we know it (it it not just for sat-karma or pious religious deeds) is an innovation in our tradition also, it was not the purpose of the mantra you get, some were not even allowed in the temple of Jagannath but would worship Deity in 'our way', now we have an advanced elaborate worship, but it was not like that. One can engage in our sampradaya worship without being a 'brahmana', Bhaktivinoda Thakura never had a brahmana tread, nor did Gaura Kisora Babaji, or Prabhupada and his sister, they were worshiping the forms of Gaura Gadadhara, Gaura Nitai, Radha Krishna without wearing the tread (where did prabhupada said that you can not worship a deity form if you do not have a second initiation?) It's a "standard" adopted now and is important for preaching. He gave second 'brahmana' initiation in 1968 before any murti was installed in USA. It is a 'good temple standard' to have a proper brahmana who worships deity, it attracts materialistic hindus and it is a proper way to present our philosophy that Vaisnava is already a brahmana.

Just as it looks good to have proper installation ceremony for the temple with born-brahmanas, but Prabhupada said that he prefers our devotees kirtan instead of the yajna for installation of Krishna Balarama (but he would use the professional-brahmanas only to please the local residents).

So yes we should follow example of Haridasa Thakura, but get initiation into the sampradaya mantras too, even if the holy name is sufficient to deliver you. For chanting the hari-nama you do not even need to be initiated to be delivered, you do not even need to be a human:-) but for the pleasure of Prabhupada you want all the perfection and all the mantras he gives in parampara. Both brahmana treads and sannyasa dress are external preaching tools (daivi-varnasrama preaching), but gopal mantra and sannyasa mantra are not just for preaching, it is for self-realisation (while all is contained already in the holy name, they help you realize it).

Do not reject any chances you have in getting the second initiation, it is important.

Tattva das says: April 1, 2010 Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Yes, one who has made a commitment to ISKCON’s mission should strive to the fullest extent possible to adjust himself to remain in ISKCON. However, as you know, many devotees after 1977 were told, “unless you accept diksha from this Zonal Guru, and worship him as an uttama-adhikari, you will be banished from ISKCON.” Would you fault those devotees for being honest with themselves and others, and refusing to participate in something they couldn’t believe in (and in retrospect, something in which almost all who refused were proven correct)? A modern example: There are some devotees who came to ISKCON after 1977 yet consider Srila Prabhupada their primary siksha-guru, and who — satisfied by their link to the bhagavata-parampara — choose not to seek diksha. Even though these siksha-disciples are not “fanatic Prabhupada-onlyites — they are happy to let others choose a diksha-guru according to their faith — some ISKCON leaders consider such attachment to Srila Prabhupada to be an affront against ISKCON, and try to push these devotees out when they can. That cannot be good for the unity of ISKCON as a society under Srila Prabhupada’s authority, can it be? Obviously, if one’s primary spiritual relationship — diksha or siksha — is with Srila Prabhupada, one would naturally seek to serve in his ISKCON rather than in some other society established by a Godbrother or disciple of Srila Prabhupada. Sadly, at present, there are parts of ISKCON in which the concept of bhagavata-parampara is preached but not practiced. ISKCON already allows certain gurus to present themselves (albeit quietly most of the time, to an intimate circle of sympathizers) as uttama-adhikari, while allowing others to present themselves as essentially nothing more than “monitor gurus” whose job is to formalize the disciple’s position in the society so he can serve Srila Prabhupada. With this variety already allowed, why not take just two more steps? (1) Accept that a siksha-disciple of Srila Prabhupada is “just as fully” his disciple as a diksha-disciple. Of course, without gayatri mantras there will be certain ceremonial and public functions off-limits to a devotee who makes that choice — which the humble siksha-disciple should accept, just as Srila Haridas Thakur didn’t press for greater status. (2) Accept that one can be fully a siksha-disciple of Srila Prabhupada even if diksha was given by some other Vaishnava. This would preserve ISKCON for all time as the singular institution dedicated to the pre-eminent position of Srila Prabhupada, and all devotees — be they initiates of anyone else – could find their service accepted within ISKCON so long as they sincerely upheld Srila Prabhupada as their primary guru. In fact, if someone eventually wants to make a movement insisting on the presumed uttama-adhikari status of his guru, such a movement should be separate from ISKCON, despite the diksha-lineage from Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada may have produced many uttama-adhikari disciples, but ISKCON should be the movement that can unite all those who accept Srila Prabhupada as their most prominent guru, siksha and/or diksha. Once that principle is established, diksha can retire to its deserved status as a private matter of conscience between gurus and disciples who are united in their purpose of service.

It is not an easy subject. Mainly because it is seen so differently in different traditions and the fact that ISKCON second initiation is different from other.

The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge.

Daniel J.Boorstein.

The person who knows 'how' will always have a job. The person who knows 'why' will always be his boss.

Diane Ravitch.

One should be prepared to learn in order to advance in Krishna science. The difficulty is that people refuse to learn and to advance further,... a sign of voluntary ignorance...

I can not believe my own eyes. Does it mean you agree that without having obtained the mantra in parampara you have the illusion of knowledge?