Philosophy: How to discriminate without making offenses?

I think the essential is the attitude, that is, why you are being critic, if it is for some ulterior personal motivation, then watch out.

Re discrimination - all places where 'viveka' is mentioned (esp. SB 11.24.2): http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=viveka+site%3Avedabase.net&btnG=Google+Search

my question remains, please someone....

"But was/is it allright to discriminate even spiritually?"

Not just 'alright' but essential. Two classes of devotees don't discriminate - the Kanistha and the Uttama bhaktas.

The challenge here is to learn the proper means of discrimination according to guru, sadhu and sastra. So long as we use Krishna's criteria to discriminate then discrimination is helpful. And i think we should always keep in mind that we are students and be open to advice and even correction if needed.

Discrimination and making offenses are terms mutually excluded.

Discrimination means to ponder with good intelligence and scriptural evidence.

Making offenses: first we have to find someone to whom we can "blaspheme" or commit offences, unfortunately generally it all sums up in dissension ending in being catalogued, the person in power "has been offended" and the weaker devotee in the food chain is a demon with hell as the next destination.

I am referring to what is commonly known and used as weapon of character destruction WCD: vaishnava aparadha, not simply offence as in the english term meaning.
You know what I mean, do you?

I have been sooo involved, up to the neck for almost 30 years, I know what I am talking about.

It is just that every time one wants to start to talk about what is wrong, the same old story, called it offenses, aparadhas or whatever technical term you want, wise and politically correct people nod their heads, aha!

And then for no reason (or is there one?) start backfiring at the "offender".

Ask yourself why you do not want to go deeper in the problems, why you avoid discussing, what to speak of taking action.

This counter attack character assassination is usually produced and encouraged by the same people that are provoking the problems or not solving them.

And, sad as it is, promoted by what Wilhelm Reich calls "little men".

And I am not talking about problems that could arise from being not perfect (I myself know, have been, except for GBC, in all managerial positions).

I am talking about grave errors, profound mistakes anchored in philosophical deviances, and usually based on the lower modes of nature.

Talking about real felons that hold positions and are protected by the establishment.

That, is very serious matter, my friend, and cannot be dismissed by a "we are imperfect, Prabhu" type of approach.

I agree that there are a few individuals that go around criticizing all that moves and you can see, they even use foul language and

of course have no philosophical solid ground: It is easy to see that they are driven by anger, etc


But to drop all of us that try to discuss and make devotees conscious of the defects with the intent of helping this movement... no, I do not

accept you people that dismiss us. You are throwing the baby with the bath water; you are the ones really responsible for the big problems,

as you are, in the name of sanity, being the ones that support the wrongdoers.


Do you want to really help ISKCON? Help devotees. Start being brave.

Hare Krishna.

Tamala Krsna: Burnt off. [break] What is the way to draw the line
between the following three things: blasphemy, fault-finding, and
calling a spade a spade?

Prabhupada: A spade a spade... Just like I am saying that "What you
are? You are small fig only." That is reality. And what is the other?

Tamala Krsna: The other is fault-finding and...

Prabhupada: Fault-finding, that is another fault, that... vranam
icchanti, maksika vranam icchanti, madhum icchanti(?) Just like the
flies, they are finding out where is sore, and the bees, they are
finding out where there is honey. So two animals, they have got two
business: fault-finding and collecting the good things. These are
two... Just like creature. They are two classes. Similarly, there are
many rascals who are simply fault-finding.

Tamala Krsna: And blasphemy?

Prabhupada: Blasphemy means you have good qualities, but still, I am
defaming you.

Tamala Krsna: So the saintly person tends to overlook the bad
qualities and see the good ones.

Prabhupada: Yes.


>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura

Bhakti Vikas Maharaj wrote this on his email sangha:

This answer by quoting Srila Prabhupada gives the key to the answer for the query: "How to understand Maharaj's lectures?"

I just wrote to one devotee:

"Vaisnava education is superficial if it does not aim to impart discernment of maya both inside and outside of ISKCON, if it overlooks or promotes insitution-friendly misconceptions -- such as that philosophical deviations of devotees in the role of gurus should not be addressed or even considered as such for fear of Vaisnava-aparädha. Education should be in Vaisnava philosophy, not ISKCON philosophy--between which there should be no difference."

I invite others on this forum, who live within ISKCON with eyes open yet not making offenses, to address these points further.

The simple method given to us devotees would be to learn the symptoms of the three modes, apply it as simple as possible, then preach the problem off/away even if it would mean calling a spade a spade or a thief a thief!!
Why not???????
easy said and not so easy done, however It's always done well! Krsna says: I'm the knowledge know-er and the known" Why not teach/preach it?