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What does it mean to "do something for Krishna"?
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Greetings.
Please help me understand this.
I often read, hear and have been told that one should execute devotional service in order to please Krishna, or that one should "do something for Krishna".
This may sound strange, but I do not know what that means, although I understand those words/concepts in a mere linguistic sense. Where I come from, we normally do not use the words/concepts "do something for someone" or "do something to please someone." Those words/concepts are used only in a derogatory, vulgar or another negative sense (to imply blackmail).
I suppose we in effect do try to do things in order to please someone in a positive, wholesome sense (such as asking them what sort of food they would like and then carefully preparing it). But I myself, nor any of the people I have known here, would actually use the words/concept "I am doing this to please my father" to talk or think about said thing. For example, if I prepare a dish that my father likes, the moment I think about it as "I am trying to please my father", it all feels wrong, ridiculous, worthless.
I imagine that when scriptures and authorities talk about "pleasing Krishna", they do not mean it in those negative ways.
So what does it mean to "do something for Krishna"?
What should be the attitude or the motivation for "doing something for Krishna"? -
It means 'to serve' (in any of the nine ways)
Attitude should be anyabhilasita sunyam... (CC 2.19.167). -
You can do it with detachment and try to mentally offer a success to Krishna. Just as you cook food, you do it with the intent of pleasing Krishna. I know it may not be as simple with exams, but being detached from the results help. The ultimate motivation is to please Krishna, if that is not possible, at least the spirit of detachment is needed, in the sense that you are not the actual doer but your intent in action is to please the Lord.
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You can do it with detachment and try to mentally offer a success to Krishna. Just as you cook food, you do it with the intent of pleasing Krishna. I know it may not be as simple with exams, but being detached from the results help. The ultimate motivation is to please Krishna, if that is not possible, at least the spirit of detachment is needed, in the sense that you are not the actual doer but your intent in action is to please the Lord.ccd:
I do not think I can do that. I do not trust or wish to please anyone who has the power to make my life a living hell. Ever since I can remember, the notion of "trust God" evoked in me the image of swimming out in the open sea with big sharks all around, ready to tear me to shreds.[br]
I suppose I should be allright with that, since God has everything in control and is the most powerful one, so it is futile to try to resist.[br]
But trying to trust someone who has the power to make my life a living hell - I do not think I can do that without becoming insane.[br][br]
How do you cope with that? Or have you never had such concerns? -
I can do it with detachment - but I can do it only for so long until the activity becomes irrational, and sooner or later it always does. I do not think I have much positive attachment to the result, I do not think that it would be somehow truly beneficial for me to do the work. Nor am I convinced of the negative consequences for not doing the work.
Of course I can hype myself up with "positive thinking" and all that, and I often do. But deep down, I know that I don't care.
Trying to "do it for Krishna" feels to me like just another way to hype myself up.
To me, the "Krishna conscious way of life" seems like just another way of living a life of quiet desperation.
I don't know. Perhaps I am just not embodied in a species that could appreciate Krishna consciousness. -
> I do not think I have much positive attachment to the result, I do not think that it would be somehow truly beneficial for me to do the work. Nor am I convinced of the negative consequences for not doing the work.
Then you should not do it, Baker. If however you have to do it, do it with detachment, as you say it is easy. Yes material activities are ultimately pointless, so if you have the detachment, better do things that have meaning to your relationship with Krishna and vasnavas, not something that has no meaning.
And no, "Krishna conscious way of life" is not another way of living a life of quiet desperation;-) It is a loud desperation, sankirtana. -
Then you should not do it, Baker. If however you have to do it, do it with detachment, as you say it is easy.ccd:
I didn't say it was easy. I can do it, as a sort of going through the motions. But there come periods of time when I can't bear to go through the motions, not even for a second.[br][br]Yes material activities are ultimately pointless, so if you have the detachment, better do things that have meaning to your relationship with Krishna and vasnavas, not something that has no meaning.
But I don't see anything to look forward to, in relation to Krishna or the Vaisnavas!
[br][br]And no, "Krishna conscious way of life" is not another way of living a life of quiet desperation;-) It is a loud desperation, sankirtana.
Why do you call it a desperation - given that devotees keep saying how they chant Hare Krishna and are happy? -
I am sorry, I have diverted you. You were asking about one thing and I started talking about something else. It is my bad. Please forgive me.
Pure devotional service has nothing to do with the material world and your material goals have nothing to do with pure devotional service.
But we should watch our mind when you are getting hit by a rock of difficulties in the material world. Don't have to be busy or hectic. Rather introspective, watch if your mind is taking shelter of any other emotion than serving Krishna, see where your mind goes in difficulty and imagine what you will do in the event of death. You must come to the point of humility and needing mercy, for you will see how this exam will go, you will find that your mind will not take shelter in serving Krishna.
You can start however by just offering whatever you do to Krishna, but please be aware you are doing what you want, not what Krishna wants. So in a way you are wasting time and just getting purified to start proper devotional service. -
I am sorry, I have diverted you. You were asking about one thing and I started talking about something else. It is my bad. Please forgive me.ccd:
I am not sure you have done something wrong, so there is nothing to feel wronged by, nor to forgive.[br][br]Pure devotional service has nothing to do with the material world and your material goals have nothing to do with pure devotional service.
Actually, my reasoning is that since any kind of devotional service seems to be off limits for me, I should just see to it that I keep up with my material obligations, no matter how difficult doing them for their own sake is for me.
[br][br]But we should watch our mind when you are getting hit by a rock of difficulties in the material world. Don't have to be busy or hectic. Rather introspective, watch if your mind is taking shelter of any other emotion than serving Krishna, see where your mind goes in difficulty and imagine what you will do in the event of death. You must come to the point of humility and needing mercy, for you will see how this exam will go, you will find that your mind will not take shelter in serving Krishna.
I have had several brushes with death and many first-hand opportunities to think about the time of dying. Somehow, I think it would be allright to chant and think of God then or in times of great danger. But in everyday duties, it seems rather presumptuous.[br][br]You can start however by just offering whatever you do to Krishna,
I am sorry. I have heard this many times, but I just don't understand it.
[br][br]but please be aware you are doing what you want, not what Krishna wants. So in a way you are wasting time and just getting purified to start proper devotional service.
I don't know what to make of this ... -
Studying for Krsna means to use one's knowledge/position/inluence/money etc. after graduation for the mission of KC.VEDA:
But then I would have to have some good reason to hope that the authorities of KC would accept that from me, and some hope that living among devotees would be at least bearable for me. Neither is the case. -
>Somehow, I think it would be allright to chant and think of God then or in times of great danger.
I think you're complacent. You see, there are three major parts of devotional process, sambhanda, abhideya and prayojana. You need to gradually study each of them and understand what your goal is. Just being 'near' devotees, or to understand what the process is about but not taking it deeply will not work.
Think of it like that; "I have a father, he will be pleased if I pass the exam, so I will tell him about the result." Is it so difficult to understand? -
I think you're complacent. You see, there are three major parts of devotional process, sambhanda, abhideya and prayojana. You need to gradually study each of them and understand what your goal is.ccd:
Do you know anyone who actually did that? Because I have gotten the impression that devotees are people who did not actually need to study these things, and that if one needs to study them, then one isn't fit to be a devotee. -
Hmmm. Okay.ccd:
Think of it like I have a sister who is a good friend, she will be happy to hear that I passed the exam. (Since she is closely related to the Father, it is even better to present it to Her rather than to Him.)
I am sorry, but I cannot relate to that either. I mean, what you are saying makes sense, but I have no actual experience of things of this kind. I never had any friends, my family took care of me begrudgingly. Even when I did well at school or elsewhere, they seemed disappointed, my every success felt like a failure. -
[quote]Baker:
Hmmm. Okay.ccd:
Think of it like I have a sister who is a good friend, she will be happy to hear that I passed the exam. (Since she is closely related to the Father, it is even better to present it to Her rather than to Him.)
I am sorry, but I cannot relate to that either. I mean, what you are saying makes sense, but I have no actual experience of things of this kind. I never had any friends, my family took care of me begrudgingly. Even when I did well at school or elsewhere, they seemed disappointed, my every success felt like a failure.[/quote] Think of your real family, not the one you got. We all have the same experience with family, disappointing in the material world, but still we all have an ideal of how it should be (otherwise how could we know it was disappointing). -
I am sorry. I do not mean to be difficult. It is just that my conditining, or my personality, seem to be such that none of the usual approaches or analogies work.
Often, I try to ignore that, and try to in effect build on experiences that I don't have, thinking that since the instruction makes sense to me, this should be good enough, even if I don't have the experience that the analogy in the instruction is based on. Like "chant in a mood like a child crying for its mother" - I don't know what that is like, to cry for my mother. If I cried for my mother, she wouldn't come, or she'd chastise me. I cannot imagine how anything good can come from me doing something in a mood like a child crying for its mother.
I know that in that sense, I am not normal. I don't know what to do. So much of what I read in scriptures or hear from devotees is based on experiences that I do not have, or on taking certain lines of reasoning for granted, but which I cannot take for granted. -
>> Studying for Krsna means to use one's knowledge/position/inluence/money etc. after graduation for the mission of KC.
> But then I would have to have some good reason to hope that the authorities of KC would accept that from me, and some hope that living among devotees would be at least bearable for me. Neither is the case.
Srila Prabhupada had no cooperation from authorities, yet it didn't stop him in fulfilling the mission of his guru. If someone understands the mission of Sri Caitanya and takes it to one's heart, he can't but follow Him even in the midst of great difficulties like in prison or gulag (in the case of some Russian devotees).
You said that so far your experience with devotees is very limited, to one NH group. Hope you understand that to make general conclusions from this is out of place.
Imho, you have quite negative prarabdha karma as seen from your troublesome psychological and life experiences. This also prevents you to look for solutions. Rather, you just passively repeat 'can't, can't, can't'. Regression, kinesiology, reiki, etc. are helpful in such cases with quick results. They helped me and people around me. Devotional service also helps but it takes lot of time for one with psychological blocks. Their effect is like driving a car with applied handbrake . -
You said that so far your experience with devotees is very limited, to one NH group. Hope you understand that to make general conclusions from this is out of place.VEDA:
Is it? Do devotees not stick together against karmis?[br][br]Imho, you have quite negative prarabdha karma as seen from your troublesome psychological and life experiences. This also prevents you to look for solutions. Rather, you just passively repeat 'can't, can't, can't'. Regression, kinesiology, reiki, etc. are helpful in such cases with quick results.
Have you any idea how frustrating these things are for me ... I have tried so many things. I look for solutions all the time, but nothing seems to work, at least not for long. It's like dealing with a dragon that grows two or three new heads the moment I chop off one. -
> It's like dealing with a dragon that grows two or three new heads the moment I chop off one.
Yes, it can be rather frustrating . But even here on the discussion forum, the progress is visible and significant for others to see. Prarabdha karma can be both, the stumbling block and a realization that gives determination. In other words, our greatest qualification is our disqualification, if we turn to Krishna and his devotees for solutions. -
I think you're complacent. You see, there are three major parts of devotional process, sambhanda, abhideya and prayojana. You need to gradually study each of them and understand what your goal is. Just being 'near' devotees, or to understand what the process is about but not taking it deeply will not work.ccd:
You're right, I am complacent. I am also afraid what would happen if I go into things more deeply. I have already seen what happens if I attempt to do so: on the one hand, I myself come up with numerous questions and decisions that I am not sure how to make and act on; on the other hand, many devotees react negatively (so I end up being criticzed as the "doubting Thomas") or abandon me.[br][br]
As for the latter, I can of course keep to myself. But the loneliness eventually becomes too much to bear, and I also hear the way others comment on someone whom they see as a "doubting Thomas", so I feel like a fraud among them, seconds away of being discovered and publicly exposed. I am afraid this would then make an end to my attempts for being accepted by the community, and an end to my ever making spiritual progress.[br][br]
As for the former - it is often simply overwhelming, the number of things I see I would need to know and do. I am finding myself unable to set priorities, because all those things seem to go by the principle "To get X, I need X", so I feel stuck. -
no need to get stuck, Baker...
identify where you are now e.g. using the Bhagavatam where it speaks about mixed devotional service.
Its just a question of observation of oneself and practice of sadhana, like chanting Hare Krishna a prescribed number of times, reading shastra and whatever devotional practice is attractive to you.
gradually you will realize more and more things factually (vijnana) and will be more and more able to see above the mind and intellect.
You are a GTD´er, make a project, next actions and away you are back to Godhead :) -
do something for Krishna
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
do = a verb indicating the performance of an activity or task
something = an unspecified or unidentified object, phenomenon, action, utterance, or feeling
for = a preposition indicating that something is directed at somebody, done to benefit somebody, or done on somebody's behalf
Krishna = The Supreme Personality of Godhead
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