Why is it that most of Srila Prabhupada's disciples that join Narayan M. openly minimise SP?

jagannath

I have tried to be very open minded, inclusive and accommodating to all NM disciples and members of other Vaishnava groups as they are vaishnavas too but what I find very disturbing is that they readily and quite whimsically question and criticize Srla Prabhupada's instructions,teachings and way of doing things.Devotees that I am mentioning still consider themselves followers of Srila Prabhupada despite the fact that and some were initiated by Srila Prabhupada too.

I know that this is a loaded issue but how can one criticize,disagree,disobey and still consider himself disciple of His divine Grace Srila Prabhupada?Am I missing something?

ccd

Yes. Loaded.

The same can be said about any fraction and by any fraction.

jagannath

I have never experienced it as much with any other fraction.I wander why?Also other fractions don't propose that they follow both Srila Prabhupada and NM at the same time.

Here is an example of what I am talking about.Prabhupad initiated person taking siksa from NM exclaims in my house that 4 regulative principles are bullshit.Now,could you imagine that same person standing up in front of Srila Prabhupada and saying the same thing to his face?He can only say that because he things that Srila Prabhupada is dead or incorrect.Either seems offensive.But to claim to be Srila Prabhupada's disciple while categorically rejecting his instruction seems bizarre.

ccd

i was mainly talking about those who follow Sridhara Swami and Prabhupada at the same time.

VEDA

NM was discussed here at length earlier.

jagannath

VEDA:
NM was discussed here at length earlier.

was my specific question answered in that tread?

VEDA

I don't remember. Not sure if there's one-answer-fits-all.

bhakti das

There is an extreme philosophical difference between narayanna maharaja and Sridhara swamis team ,which stems from there interaction back in the late 60's and seventies.Which exploded into serious offences between the maths,which are still present today! Iskcon philosophically has tended to follow Sridhar swamis conclusions in a general sense,though recently it has been noticed that there has been a serious seperation amongst the Srila Prabhupadas followers...Though many suggest they are diksa followers they are no longer followers of Srila Prabhupadas sastric conclusions ,since Narayanna maharajas are seriously different than those of accepted orthodox gaudiya vaisnavaism.
He has chosen uniquely to accept siksa from caste-brahmana and sahajiya lines,he preaches from rasa sastras and has different teachings concerning raganuga bhakti.All of which has caused a natural seperation amongst Srila Prabhupadas iskcon ,general orthodox gaudiya matha followers and on the other side narayanna maharaja and his followers.Many have felt the need to take re-initiation and even stand meekly by as Narayanna maharaja has attacked his former siksa guru(Srila Prabhupada ) teachings as inferior and lacking.
Discrimination is indeed needed to appreciate wether someone is still a disciple,when the new siksa guru(narayanna maharaja ) openly preaches against the diksa guru(Srila Prabhupada) and we stay quiet and subtlely accept this blaphemous behaviour as acceptable!
!Personally (my opinion)....since the loyalty is now gone....and the siddhanta is completely different ,how can they be genuine disciples, when they stand by as he openly makes jokes and ridicules at Srila Prabhupadas expense...?

jagannath

Thank you bhakti das prabhu for your detailed and illuminating explanation.

jagannath

Another related question:

I am surrounded by N.M. disciples that lack the discretion to be able to ascertain what is really going on.I believe that it is mostly due to the fact that they don't read Srila Prabhupada's books nor hear his transcendental recordings.

Is is proper for me to have limited association with them as there is no other association available in the close proximity or is it better to completely abstain from their company?I should note that I am 1000% convinced that Srila Prabhupada(as he lives in sound) is well able to guide me thru his books and sounds so I am not in any way susceptible to being mislead.Thank you for taking the time.

Bhagavatamrta

I think that's a complicated question Jagannath prabhu. That's all depend on the conscience of the N.M. disciples that live near you. I have personal experience with two very good N.M. devotees that live near here, that are very dedicated, inspiring and humble, a very nice association for any vaishnava, but on the other hand I have also experience with a number of disciples that are very aggressive and openly offensive, to the point that distance is the only plausible solution... So, in the end the answer lies on what type of devotees you are dealing with.

jagannath

The only reason I choose not to judge them is because I was mislead too for a long time by a bogus Iskcon guru.Just because of that I am trying to suspend my judgement for the time being.They are working very hard trying to recruit me and my family.Every once in a while they get exasperated and in that exasperation sometimes they blurt out some offensive nonsense about Srila Prabhupada.When I call them on that they immediately deny that they have ever said any such thing or try hard to justify it with some convoluted philosophy.I hope they get some sense soon.

If they invested even half of the energy that they are investing to recruit us they could convert some karmis to their cause.But the problem is that they are beyond preaching.Too advanced to do what Srila Prabhupada did.It is easier to leech of Srila Prabhupada's hard work than it is to go out and preach.Disgusting mentality.

Bhagavatamrta

jagannath:
Every once in a while they get exasperated and in that exasperation sometimes they blurt out some offensive nonsense about Srila Prabhupada.When I call them on that they immediately deny that they have ever said any such thing or try hard to justify it with some convoluted philosophy

That's to me is a red light, because it shows that they do have some ofensive ideas. They try to hide then, but when some sensible issue come up and they get angry, the dirty stuff come up. And then, when questioned, they present some kind of justification, because the ego don't let then admit the mistakes.

That's exactly the same pattern that I saw in a lot of the devotees of the "bad" group. :-/

bhakti das

I personally have noticed a ''group mentality'' which is very disturbing amongst the narayanna maharaja followers.Former Iskcon devotees display tendencies which appear to mimick sahajiya tendencies.Though initially they are usually only tendencies after a period of time, what was small transgressions tend to transpire into severe forth right deviations .When i approached a devotee suggesting there encouraging of ''gopi-katha'' and advertising of raghnuga bhakti was inept attempts to convince neophytes of there superior saintly position.That our gaudiya line does not offer or encourage such siksa to neophytes,and that those that preach this..... do so errantly , not follow the sanctioned blessed path of our archaryas .This gopi-katha,i suggested was infact bhogus they became inflamed and started preaching all manner of genuine offences towards me.
This was from ''uninitiated fools'' which in its self is extremely dangerous,....i would never have taken on my devotional superiors,while just in the door.Yet here they were spouting gopi katha and there imagined raganuga bhakti conclusions to attack me. Hardly a safe path nor sanctioned by Rupa Goswami Prabhupada within our devotional sastras.

manasi_seva

I don't think it is spiritually safe to join any group these days (including Iskcon), as you have to take on the group mentality no matter what group you are in and as soon as you ask some difficult questions then you are on the outside. It seems like the safest path these days is to keep faith in Srila Prabhupada and his books anything outside of that is like planning to sail around the world in a leaky boat.

Although I wouldn't want to judge all of NM's followers based on the actions of a few new comers, NM is getting very old and there is already a click surrounding him as there was just before Srila Prabhupada left the planet. Yes I also think it is a mistake for them to criticize Srila Prabhupada, but lets not make the same mistake and openly criticize NM. Although one has to admit if the new bhakta's are talking about Rasika topics then who is instructing the bhakta's?

Lets face it Srila Prabhupada set very high standards and had an amazing bhakta program that actually worked, his festival standards were befitting of the worship of the supreme lord, and the prasadam standards were amazing, you could taste the devinity. You felt when you entered a Srila Prabhupada/Iskcon temple that you were transported to the spiritual world, the impact this all had on an individual was nothing short of life changing. Unfortunately most of this has been dismantled now and it seems the primary ingredient missing is "Bhakti". At my local Iskcon temple it is run mostly by a committee of Indians and to perform Abisheka on the deities at Janmastami you had to pay 30 dollars and get a ticket and stand in line, maybe soon they will start selling those gross marble tiles with your name and how much you donated and stick them all over the temple. Hey Krishna!, how I miss Srila Prabhupada and his Iskcon. They were truly amazing times.

jagannath

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Although I wouldn't want to judge all of NM's followers based on the actions of a few new comers,...

I was not talking about the newcomers.I am talking about persons that took diksa from Srila Prabhupada directly but later on took siksa from NM.

They say things like 4 regulative principles are bogus ,Srila Prabhupada was experimenting,He didn't give us everything etc.

When I confront them about the offenses they readily deny everything and continue their zealous propaganda devoid of any good sense and appropriate personal example.

I sense that they have been indoctrinated by NM to the degree that Srila Prabhupad is considered just like kindergarten teacher by them.

It is ironic that it was Srila Prabhupada that risked his life to save their souls and not NM.Is it beyond NM to follow Srila Prabhupada's example and save some more souls instead indoctrinating gullible minds of Srila Prabhupada's disloyal disciples with topics reserved for advanced, deserving and loyal souls?

portnoy

Manasi Seva ---- what you wrote above is absolutely brilliant and beautiful. It brought tears to my eyes. You should send it intact to Sampradaya Sun since it has a pretty wide readership around the world. Your words should be heard by everyone who has or had any connection with Srila Prabhupada's teachings and movement.

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