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Social: Devotees who falsely ask for food for life donations

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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007 edited
     
    One devotee in the streets says:
    give me a donation, it is for the starving children in india/africa

    Then with the money they pay their bills, buy stuff for them etc. Have you seen this behaviour in you local area?
    What do you think about it?
  2.  
    I have seen and heard about it a lot since I am in ISKCON. But I could never say anything about it.
    When I wanted to say something they always cut it off with : "I am older then you are so just keep your mouth, little one!"
    So yes I do think that even though I can't say anything or nobody can, Krishna sees all. He never lets things happen without a purpose.
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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    So I guess you are against it right?
    Here we are all little ones so you can speak. :)
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      CommentAuthorphani
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    sue them.

    ys phani.
  5.  
    hehe, yes of course I am against it.. :)
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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    > sue them.
    But the next time you see them in the temple it will create conflict...you know.
    hmmm. this inspired me to make another question.
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      CommentAuthorVEDA
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    Isn't it pretty much like a variation of the flower stealing issue (in an earlier thread)?

    Jayädvaita: The only place I found some difficulty is that sometimes if there is some discrepancy in behavior of our students, some petty stealing or something like that, then that is...
    Prabhupäda: That you have to train our men so that they may be well behaved.
    Jayädvaita: In Laguna Beach we had so many complaints, that they were trying to stop the temple. And their main complaint was that the devotees were taking flowers from people's gardens and without any permission, without any, simply taking. And just on that account they wanted to stop us. Some petty stealing, fifty dollars worth of flowers.
    Prabhupäda: So why our devotees should take flowers from them? Stop it.
    Jayädvaita: Yes, I stopped it. Instead I sent a letter to the neighbors that no one is taking flowers and we are planting a big garden. Now they've done that, and the neighbors come and they appreciate that such a nice garden is there, they remark.
    Prabhupäda: You can make them friends, that "Your flowers in the garden will dry and fall down, so while it is fresh, if it is offered to God, and you'll get benefit out of it, why you object?" Yes. That's a fact.
    Jayädvaita: They'll do that, too.
    Prabhupäda: Yes, so convince them. They will be not enemy.
    Hari-çauri: We used to tell them that in Melbourne, but they said "Leave them alone 'cause we want to enjoy them." They said that they're in their gardens for their own enjoyment.
    Prabhupäda: They have no idea that why the flowers are taken. It is not for our enjoyment, for your enjoyment. When your flowers will be accepted by Kåñëa, you'll be happy.
    Jayädvaita: It's a little difficult to explain afterwards. Instead of explaining before, that "Can we take," they would take and then explain.
    Prabhupäda: Yes, that you have to manage. That is preaching. What you'll do? I have seen that garden. There are lemons, apples; they are rotting and falling down. So while they can be used for Kåñëa's purpose, why don't you give it? [break] ...too hot. At night, of course, it is not hot. They lie down in open place like this on a cot. Very pleasing sleeping.
    (Garden Conversation, June 14, 1976, Detroit)
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      CommentAuthorphani
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    of course, if they live in the same community, i would talk to them. if they don't listen, involve the authorities. if that doesn't help, contact what's-his-name, who's running global food for life. i'm sure they will have strong objections to that type of behavior.

    if none of the above works, i.e., nobody cares, perhaps you should start collecting for "the poor brahmacaris in next door's temple who are forced to lie to make ends meet," and give them a percentage of the result?

    ys phani.
    • CommentAuthorshina
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    I think that stealing some flowers is not the same as asking for money. Flowers will be always offered to Krsna but will that money be used 100% in Krsna's service?... and lying to people is not very nice neither...
    • CommentAuthorshina
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007 edited
     
    In one lecture I heard that that is called Maya. You say, "Oh! yes, if things are coming so easily it's because Krsna wants me to enjoy them. I deserve some concessions, I come to the temple, I chant my rounds... I need some sense gratification!" but that's Maya's plan to take you away from Krsna.

    I am totally against this way of collecting money. It's better to beg if you are really desperate, but cheating in the name of Krsna!!! I hope non devotees don't hear this!!!

    Child abuse may have it's purpose also but that doesn't mean that we have to accept it. It amazes me that you don't see that this kind of things can destroy everything, really...
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      CommentAuthorphani
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    servant krsna prabhu: krsna certainly wants someone to handle a situation like this, but it's not necessarily you. if you feel what's going on isn't right, then act in whatever way you can: speak to your mom, or older devotees you have a good relationship with. whatever happens then isn't your responsibility and you can watch and learn.

    ys phani.
  12.  
    No no no, don't get me wrong, please. I meant that when you can't do anything about it then it's not your fault. Please, forgive me for my ignorance but please don't give me such an accusation. I'm really sorry that it made such an impression.
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      CommentAuthorphani
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    oops, i didn't mean to accuse you of anything; sorry if i sounded as if i was.

    i don't know what position or role you have in your community, but from some of your comments i assumed you're not among the senior-members. if that's true, then you are certainly not responsible for mistakes of others; but if you feel something isn't right, you should speak to those you trust.

    that's no accusation, is it?

    ys phani.
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      CommentAuthorsitapati
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    It's wrong. One previous vaisnava acarya had a gang of thieves steal money and then he used it all for building a temple. Then he killed those thieves by sinking them in a boat. In other words, he didn't let them loose to practice the same collection techniques, only this time to maintain their grha.

    Unless we can kill the the collectors when it comes time for them to collect for themselves, *and* we can stop other people imitating, we should stay out of this line of business.

    I'm being frivolous there...^ :-)

    I've had to help people get out of this collection mode. It's addictive, like gambling or intoxication. It's easy, fast money. It's very irresponsible and it destroys a person's character and self-esteem. I would never recommend or use this as a collection strategy to maintain an ISKCON project. The long term effects on the organization's credibility and the character formation of the integrants are devastating.
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      CommentAuthorekendra
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2007
     
    I live in bogus collection loka - Australia. This sort of program is sadly still around here in some areas. I refused to do it as a brahmacari and was given the ultimatum to either collect enough money from book distribution or I'd need to play 'stick 'em up cowboys' (selling stickers with lies). Somehow we managed to bring in the needed funds to maintain the temple selling books.

    This lying, cheating, stealing thing is such a nasty program with far reaching detrimental effects that I live and breathe every day here in Australia. Devotees are so fried with the organization that they barely attend any programs as their experience with ISKCON has been exploitative. When they couldn't be milked for any more cash then they were mostly discarded and ignored. I can give so many stories and examples you'd just about want to vomit.

    And the big question I have is still - "what do we have to show for all of these collections?" After millions of dollars running though our fingers, so many of these temples here are presently struggling to make ends meet. What happened to all the money and resources? And especially - "What happened to all the devotees?"

    It tragic.
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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2007
     
    I call that FFMW "Food for my Wife".

    I experienced it in AU too. 50 % goes to the collector and 50% for the temple, well for the TP.

    It is easy, they just stand with a bucket with the "Food For life" sticker and they shake it to make noise. Vomit producer stuff.

    I also complained about this, (newly arrived inmigrant hehe) and that got me in the "black list" forever.

    Sad .
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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2007
     
    wow ekendra. I didnt know it was like that there. And I guess it is the dead end situation where the managers are into other problems and nothing can be done.
    :(
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      CommentAuthorekendra
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2007
     
    Abhiram Prabhu. Its a lot better than it used to be here. Now this stuff is pretty much isolated to one or two temples. Most of the yatra has woken up to the retardedness of the whole scheme. There are just a few diehards who 'go out on the pick' still - including the purported source of the "Food for Life, for me and my wife" quip.

    Now we are in a recuperating and slightly navel-gazing phase. A few really ambitious younger devotees are capitalizing on the lull and pushing their ideas and stylized "visions" (and themselves) forward with a fervor that's pretty remarkable. To many folks it sure beats doing nothing so, in absence of anything more productive going on, it seems these guys will take center stage for a while. We'll see what Krishna has in store for us - probably a few more decades of intense (and rather embarrassing) purification ahead before we can really do something substantial for Australian society.

    That's my forecast for what its worth.
    Thankful People: abhiram
    • CommentAuthorshina
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2007
     
    unfortunately I met someone who used to do this... knowing this broke my heart.
    • CommentAuthorshina
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2007
     
    "One should work honestly according to his qualification. He should not earn his livelihood unfairly, by means for which he is not qualified. If a brāhmaṇa who works as a priest so that he may enlighten his followers with the spiritual way of life is not qualified as a priest, then he is cheating the public. One should not earn by such unfair means. The same is applicable to a kṣatriya or to a vaiśya. It is especially mentioned that the means of livelihood of those who are trying to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness must be very fair and uncomplicated. Here it is mentioned that he who earns his livelihood by unfair means (kevalena) is sent to the darkest hellish region. Otherwise, if one maintains his family by prescribed methods and honest means, there is no objection to one's being a family man." (SB 3.30.33p)

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