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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2007
     
    http://www.dandavats.com/?p=4093

    1.Defining ISKCON What is its purpose?
    2.What are the lines of authority? Organizational Structure - Definitions and roles of GBC, TP, Guru. Clearly defining the roles and relationships between temples, preaching centres, Nama Hattas and other ISKCON related entities, etc.
    3.Who is a Member? Are there different levels of membership? What’s a clergy? A congregation member, etc.
    4.What is ISKCON’s responsibility to its members? How do we define “devotee care”
    5.What are the rights and responsibilities of the members.
    6.How is justice to be administered?
    7.Responsibility for properties/Protection of Assets.

    any comments?
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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2007 edited
     
    1. Already defined by Srila Prabhupada
    2. Difficult one, GBC appoints gurus, gurus have the absolute power given by divine grace, hmmmm
    3. That comes from fear of splits and authority crisis only. Fix that and the rest will be OK.
    4. All things clear, no responsibility beyond the fair one and no encroaching of newbies assets on their arrival.
    5. I think the problem comes in the "rights" part. Overall make the leaders accountable (TP and GBC elections might come handy for that one).
    6. Judges are paid for that, you know. Just let the police do their work and never whitewash some "Prabhu" illegal activity. We will be doing OK then..
    7. Srila Prabhupada set it up nicely, now we want to change, OK, if you insist, but do not come to me crying after :)
  3.  
    Iskcon Law is sufficent for now,but Iskcon Law is not being administerd or enforced,because if it was the GBC would have to follow it,something they refuse to do.
    Sesa is just looking for something to do with his time.So what if they make a "constitution" this is totaly meaningless endeavor,I am sure it will be full " GBC...GBC...GBC..." who cares?
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      CommentAuthorVEDA
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2007
     
    If to follow something or not depends on a voluntary decision then it may be called a directive or so. Laws are enforced.
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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2007
     
    But arent constitutions supposed to be made by the people and for the people and not to benefit those already at the top?
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      CommentAuthorsitapati
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2007
     
    Constitution means "make up". have a look at the questions again - they are questions about how ISKCON is made up - who makes it up, and what kind of structure does it have? The idea is to align the official organizational structure with the reality of the situation in order to further facilitate the growth and organizational evolution of the movement as it evolves into a society.
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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2007
     
    how is this developing?
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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2007
     
    All institutions, no matter how well studied they are, are not better than the individuals that compose them and use them as tools.
    Sorry, we are not going to discover magic ahá formula here. We depend on the spiritual advancement and mature managerial abilities of the elite.
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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2007
     
    so what is the use then?
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      CommentAuthorsitapati
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2007
     
    mishra:
    "All institutions, no matter how well studied they are, are not better than the individuals that compose them and use them as tools."

    ...in other words, it's up to you. :-)
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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2007
     
    "7. Over the past thirty years there have been many committees formed to write a constitution for ISKCON but they have all failed to come to fruition. It has to be assumed that the reason for such failure is that the GBC does not really want a constitution that would hold them accountable to Srila Prabhupada’s instructions; therefore they relegate the task of writing it to bureaucratic shuffles and endless equivocations. Otherwise, why are so many stalwarts of ISKCON publishing book after book and yet the whole movement remains powerless to write a constitution? An ISKCON constitution is a relatively simple affair to write since it consists more or less on simply formalizing Srila Prabhupada’s given instructions. So why should all the Vaisnava pandits of ISKCON be unable to write such a document after thirty years? Now the writing of the constitution is being brandished by the GBC as part of a much-vaunted “Strategic Planning” brainstorm. Unfortunately, it is little more than another public relations ploy meant to stoke the flagging enthusiasm of an increasingly despondent membership. A proper constitution will not see the light of day unless all those who will give their lives to its fulfillment have a voice on what it should contain. That voice should be as a vote on ratification."
    from Vishvambhara das participating ex-member of the subcommittee for writing Iskcon constitution http://jaganat.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/open-letter-to-the-committee-for-an-iskcon-constitution/
  12.  
    constitution: "the fundamental law of a nation, state or organization, which may be written or unwritten, establishing the character and conception of it's government, laying the basic principles to which it's internal life is to be conformed, organizing the government, and regulating, distributing, and limiting the functions of it's different departments, and prescribing the manner and extent of the exercise of sovereign
    powers. such a charter of government derives it's authority from the governed."

    source: Black's law dictionary
  13.  
    constitution:something Sesa das does with His spare time that will not change anything or improve Iskcon in any way.
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      CommentAuthorsitapati
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2007
     
    constitution: the way in which a thing is composed or made up; makeup; composition.
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      CommentAuthorsitapati
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2007
     
    source: dictionary.com
    • CommentAuthoradikavi
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2007 edited
     
    Just went to Sesa Prabhu's house two days ago when Radhanatha Swami was there. Lots of devotees went. He opened up his house and hired a devotee caterer. There was standing room only in order to see the Maharaja who spoke in the living room. I didn't count the cars or the devotees but maybe 100 cars or more? Afterwards H H Radhanatha Swami spoke at the Sunday Feast too in similar packed circumstances. Somebody has to maintain the status quo. He seems to be loved by the devotees, Radhanatha Swami.
    While a devotee was waiting to use the bathroom after prasadam to wash up he told me that Radhanatha Swami was in India before he joined and was sitting at the back of a pandal program and Srila Prabhupada saw him sitting there with his long beard. He told the devotees to invite him up on stage to chant Hare Krishna with them and that is how he joined.
    Apparently it was quite a large pandal program and Srila Prabhupada wasn't in the habit of always inviting just anyone with long hair and a beard up onto the stage during programs so who can understand the activities of a pure devotee?
  17.  
    He is patita- pavana, most merciful TO THE MOST FALLEN....
    • CommentAuthorhariharibol
    • CommentTimeNov 23rd 2007 edited
     
    ...readers may recall Sesa das's " Interview with chairman of the GBC constitution committee " of July 13th posted in Dandavats,we seen an update August 14th,but haven't heard anything since then.most likely we will necer hear from Sesa again.
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      CommentAuthorsitapati
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2007
     
    hariharibol, hello... Sesa specifically said that you wouldn't hear anything further until March 2008.

    "October to March 2008 - revising the initial work based on comments received March 2008 - Presentation to the GBC Body of revised initial work Post March 2008 - Period of Public Comment, Revisions, Final product GBC Body for Final Approval."

    ref: http://www.iskconconstitution.com/node/73

    PS: What's with the CAPS?
    •  
      CommentAuthoradmin
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2007
     
    Caps corrected by admin.Please remember cyber courtesy.
  21.  
    ..thanks for that update Sitapati Prabhu,
    I don't believe that letter was posted on Dandavat's and until now wasn't aware of the web-site link you have provided

    The caps were used to emphasize the lack of communication by the GBC on Constitutional progress thanks again for sharing your
    correspondence with Sesa Prabhu.
  22.  
    ...I have just read " Report from the 3rd day of the GBC meetings 2008 "

    Iskcon's Justice Minister Sesa das says : " ISKCON needs a constitution: ISKCON is complex international society with many projects and people bound by a grand mission given by Srila Prabhupada. To give shape to that, a constitution is necessary. Srila Prabhupada has also talked about a constitution for ISKCON. The present paper is not intended to be a legal document; but is rather more inspirational and foundational."

    Isn't it more important that Iskcon's already existing Iskcon Laws be enforced and applied to the management of all Iskcon temples ?
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      CommentAuthorVEDA
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2008 edited
     
    The willingness to follow ISKCON laws (or constitution for that matter) is not all pervading in ISKCON, which lacks ways (and esp. willing leaders with an up-to-date and multi-sided information on the situation) to enforce them. This is the main problem in this regard, imho.
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      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2008
     
    So this is all a waste of time then
  25.  
    ...yes Abhiram Prabhu,it's all a waste of time,Sesa say's it will be " inspirational and foundational " who do these people think they are fooling?
    Sesa has the audacity to call himself the " Justice Minister " year after year,meanwhile he makes no attempt to see that Iskcon Law is respected and followed in all of Srila Prabhupada's temples.The Constitution Comitee is just another GBC joke.
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      CommentAuthorsitapati
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2008
     
    It's a volunteer movement, so it can't be anything more than inspirational. As soon as you start trying to force people to do things (they way you want them to), you'll suddenly find more people standing outside your "institutional boundaries" than inside.

    The way to gain influence is through helping people. Brahmanas give good advice and people have better lives by following it. That's what Srila Prabhupada brought, and that's what we need to continue. We need to give good guidance to individuals and communities to help them to grow organically in a healthy way. This is the function of the output of committees such as these.
  27.  
    ...has anyone heard anything about this wonderfull Constitution the GBC is working on ?
    •  
      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     
    yes, what happened to all this?

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