Social: are book changes OK?

http://www.krishna.org/ISKCON/BookChanges/108changes1.html

Are the changes mentioned at this site not real?. I am not looking at affiliation here, just look at the changes, and please Prabhus and Matajis comment, it is a big one for me at least. Thank you.

mishra:Are the changes mentioned at this site not real?. I am not looking at affiliation here, just look at the changes, and please Prabhus and Matajis comment, it is a big one for me at least. Thank you.

he may be using the article to fulfill his agenda.

"are book changes OK?"

depends. if the editing is to bring the meaning closer to Srila Prabhupada's intention then absolutely its wanted.

if not then .... no way.

Explained in the resources above. It can be done for those books whose manuscripts survived. See also http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/spbooks.htm

..NO THEY ARE NOT !

One glaring example how Hayagriva couldn't accept the Vedic universe with one sun. See the >>restored<< part:

BG 15.12p.

1972: From this verse we can understand that the sun is illuminating the whole solar system. There are different universes and solar systems, and there are different suns, moons and planets also. Sunlight is due to the spiritual effulgence in the spiritual sky of the Supreme Lord.

1983: From this verse we can understand that the sun is illuminating the whole solar system. There are different universes and solar systems, and there are different suns, moons and planets also, >>but in each universe there is only one sun. As stated in Bhagavad-gétä (10.21), the moon is one of the stars (nakñaträëäm ahaà çaçé).<< Sunlight is due to the spiritual effulgence in the spiritual sky of the Supreme Lord.

yeah - this is a continual misconception - that the books floating around in the 70's were 'Srila Prabhupada's true words' and the later editions were adulterated by those with devious intentions to steer people away from 'the truth'.

The so-called 'originals' were edited by the late Hayagriva who had a fair number of issues with some aspects of our philosophy.

Also please keep in mind that this is the same Hayagriva who preferred the association of his gay lover Keith Ham over Srila Prabhupada when they left ISKCON after Kieth (Kirtananadana) directly disobeyed Srila Prabhupada's instruction to go to London as a new sannyasi.

Instead Kieth decided to return to New York against Srila Prabhupada's direction, declared himself 'in charge' and started trying to change the dress and practices of the devotees. Srila Prabhupada then excommunicated Kieth. Then Howard (Hayagriva) left with him. (Although this may have been due to the way that the devotees followed Srila Prabhupada's instruction to excommunicate Kieth - spitting on him and all.)

It was this same Hayagriva who edited the 'original' books that are riddled with alterations and (as VEDA pointed out) sometimes distinctly different conceptions than Srila Prabhupada intended us to have.

The book changes aren't 'sinister deviations'. The side of the story I tell here is what Jayadvaita Swami is perhaps too classy to speak out about.

if author has passed away then any changes made should be signed by a new author and his/her name put under the title.
if i wrote a book I certainly wouldn't want anybody changing it after I passed away.
It is okay to write on the same subject but don't put your words in my mouth.

and this for side-by-side analysis:

http://www.jswami.info/Gita_Revisions_Explained

then make your choice which version you want to accept as 'the absolute truth'

Srila Prabhupada advised that we focus on the purports though so I also recommend that.

Book changes do worry me and many others I am sure, even if there was good intention on jswami part to do the changes to increase sales or something like that I think everyone feels that given what a grave apraddha it is to change scripture the book changes are NOT OK. Especially the wholesale changes that have gone on and might be going on or are planned for the future.
Surely you cannot be pleasing Srila Prabhupada by changing the books that he so painstakenly gave us, and when you consider on such a large scale of change and with so many new errors. I for one hesitate to buy new editions or to distribute them.

With respect Veda, whatever you say will not make me change my mind that the book changes are good. I think a lot of devotees are concerned that the changes could be messing around with scared works and even if the original translators were not up to the mark it did not matter because Srila Prabhupada was there to keep things in order and I am sure if the BG needed the many changes that have been made, Srila Prabhupada would have given them to us.
Secondly changing Srila Prabhupada writings so much seems offensive, I am sure you would you would not like for instance the ADMIN of this site "correcting " your postings without your permission!

You may call it prejudice but I call it common sense, I am sure if you could ask all the devotees they would agree that it would be better not to make changes to the books and run the risk of great big offences. Like they say "If it ain't broke don't try & fix it"

"the point is, It was broken...." wherein the "It" to which we refer is The Macmillan Gita. is that the correct understanding of the position of the admin of this website?

Yes. 'It' refers here specifically to the first full BG edition (1972) and other first editions for which the 'fix' was possible (i.e. available tapes or manuscripts).

Here is what I don't understand - Srila Prabhupada read daily from the Collier-Macmillan Bhagavad-gita As It is, right? When did Prabhupada point out the "mistakes" that he desired to be "fixed"? Srila Prabhupada was very verbal about not approving of the very first little BgAII that was very edited down and pushed on to get the full volume published. So.....would he have remained silent if he saw many "mistakes" in the larger volume?

Also, Srila Prabhupada's signature is placed in the "fixed" books. Were these changes made prior to 1977 and Prabhupada approved them?

If it's okay with an admin I would like to ask a sub-question.
KC is very simple with or without changes. There were both versions available all the time for those interested and with defferent views.
My question is this:
How all this situation with changing books and arguing which one is correct or not is pleasing to Sri Sri Radha Krishna and acaryas in Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya sampradaya?

Here is a very interesting Srila Prabhupada conversation and a comment at the end by a devotee :

Atreya Rsi: Hussain Prabhu says that his goal in life is to translate
your Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Oh, very good.
Atreya Rsi: Yes, he's a very, very sincere boy.
Prabhupada: So do it immediately. Somebody, some Arabian student made
some translation?
Atreya Rsi: Yes, there was some translations of Isopanisad.
Prabhupada: Where he is, that boy?
Atreya Rsi: Into Arabic. He's in Europe. He is a Palestinian boy.
Hussain is asking how should this translation be done, what is your
recommendation, if you have any suggestion.
Prabhupada: Of course, I am not well versed in your language, but you
simply, if you understand that English and translate it into Parsi,
that will do. As it is, you translate. Don't make any change. Then it
will be all right. And when there is difficulty, you can ask Atreya
Rsi. Harikesa.

So in this conversation Srila Prabhupada is telling this person to go ahead and translate his Bhagavad Gita into (Parsi) Arabic language simply using his already existing English translation published by the Macmillan Co. This is the same book that we distributed in the millions all over the world. But he warned him--"dont make any changes and then it will be alright."
It is clear , that this BG that was published by Macmillan Co, and daily read by Srila Prabhupada,
was to be printed in as many languages as possible-but all without change!
This is NOT what we have today with Jaya Advaita, and Dravida's version.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

"The vice•chancellor of retore Benares Hindu University, a very famous man of his time, named Madan Mohan Molaviya, came to the Gaudiya Math and had some intricate, philosophical questions to present to Sarasvati Thakura. Sarasvati Thaura said, "I won't answer you, but you should ask the devotees who are washing the arati paraphernalia." The scholar then said, "No. I am asking very difficult questions on Vedanta: They won't beable to answer!" However, Sarasvati Thakura insisted that he go and ask those pujaris, who were cleaning the Deity paraphernalia at that particular time; so, being submissive to the will of Sarasvati Thaura, he went to ask them. When he approached them, they said, "Well, now we're busy washing these plates, but please help us, and when we've finished then your question will be solved." Even though he was such a famous, respectable man, he agreed to join in and help do this humble service. After all the brass was cleaned, he returned to Sarasvati Thakura without saying anything more to the pujaris. Sarasvati Thakura then asked him, "Did you get the answer to your questions?" Madan Mohan Molaviya replied, "Yes, even without discussion. When I was helping clean the arati paraphernalia the answers automatically came in my mind." Sarasvati Thakura then replied, "Yes. The philosophy of Krsna consciousness can be understood by a service attitude, not by any amount of intellectualism. `sevonmukhe hi jihvado...' Just by reading books and reciting slokas - that won't help you. Serving God will give us all the answers to the questions in the sastras. My guru, Gaura Kisora Das Babaji, was not literate, not a pandit, but all the slokas and siddhantas came to his mouth, because he was sevonmukha • inclined to serve Krsna." krishnascience.com

"The philosophy of Krsna consciousness can be understood by a service attitude, not by any amount of intellectualism."

Sri Caitanya Caritamrta Adi-lila Chapter 12 Verse 10

"The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless."

CC Adi CH1 TEXT 35 "There is NO DIFFERENCE between the spiritual masters instructions and the spiritual master himself"

Service to Srila Prabhupada means to follow His orders--"DO NOT CHANGE ONE WORD". It is only by His service that we can understand everything. By simply following and promoting His Instructions along with His Unchanged Words, we can facilitate others having the same blessing. That is real life. Those who disagree and mislead others have not done it. Those who have done it, experience the wonderful result and request the simple devotees to have faith in serving the instructions of Srila Prabhupada and reading/hearing His unchanged books.