Social: How do ISKCON devotees become living gurus ?

..what is the offical proccess ? is it sanctioned by Srila Prabhupada ?

My understanding, 1. Get a bonafide guru. 2. Inquire from him submissively and render service. 3. Get the guru's mercy.

For me ritviks and rubber stamped gurus are the two sides of the same coin, all striving to have the initiation monopoly with different flawed arguments.

One thing is the eternal parampara system, another is the managerial authority deciding who is guru.

Where is the instruction of Srila Prabhupada on this very important subject? He certainly says "you all become guru" but certainly does not put GBC to the task of deciding who is guru.

Imho, the fear to lose control and chaos (probably caused by love for Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon), makes the managers over-control and go astray.

Can you give absolute powers to conditioned souls?

GBC means they can change anything now that Srila prabhupada is not physically present?

Are they sufficiently qualified to overrule present constitution and simple preaching strategy by Srila Prabhupada?

Did not they NOT follow SP instructions, got problems, and now want to change those instructions like they are of not value on the plea of desha-kala-patra?

Can they rule over Srila Prabhupada's instructions, or should they get real and start JUST following exactly to the letter to keep safe?

Are they or the sum total of them really qualified to appoint gurus?

The sum total of a group is not more than the best of them.

The principle of guru as I said in other posts, can be compared to marriage. Somebody might want take the risk to pre-select someone for you, but you better choose someone that fits your understanding of guru, at your own risk, and certainly from the broad society of men/women, not from a preselected list.

yes, that's mahaprabhu's order for every bona fide vaisnava to become a guru - siksa, diksa, whatever. and generally, every vaisnava can. the disciple approaches the prospective guru, and if both are satisfied that the other is qualified, they accept each other.

according to vaisnava-etiquette one doesn't accept disciples while one's own guru is still present; obviously a vaisnava would feel that his guru is more qualified than himself to be a guru.

in a 'math,' the acarya decides how things are done, including who initiates and who doesn't. ISKCON isn't a math, and the closest we have to an acarya is the GBC. from the 1975 GBC meetings:

Resolved: The GBC (Governing Body Commission) has been established by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada to represent Him in carrying out the responsibility of managing the International Society for Krishna Consciousness of which He is the Founder-Acarya and supreme authority. ...

that doesn't spell out that the GBC is to appoint gurus, but it's included in the job-description. the other alternative would be to not regulate guruship at all: anybody who feels like can accept disciples. sometimes i thought this might be a better option, but in the end i came to the conclusion it won't. there are too many people with inflated egos around, and too many people who don't know enough to discriminate. in the end ISKCON and the GBC would be blamed, anyway, because they are the final authority, for allowing such things to happen.

some regulation should be there, some minimum-standard that those who want to accept disciples have to fulfill. obviously they can't look into anybody's heart and really know what the person will or won't do during the next 50 years. the present system is awkward, and perhaps a better one can be found, but the principle, that the GBC decides who's going to initiate, is ok, IMO.

in the quote above, where it says the GBC is "to represent Him in carrying out the responsibility of managing the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." i don't see why deciding on initiation-issues shouldn't be included; that's an important part of "managing the society," no?

A more pressing Question would be..... How do you become a "Dead Guru"? Since the previous Acharyas always said that they never die, and live for ever in Sound!

the same article formatted and readable:

http://www.gopala.org/node/92

One must die and take birth again or become twice born!

According to my understanding,brahman initiation means to reject all sinful way of living[the sinful personality dies!],and a new personality with brahmanic qualities is born,[second birth] by regular practice of sadhana,and obeying the orders of his bonafide spiritual master,who succeeded to go back to Godhead,by following his spiritual master's orders.

Anyone who can't follow the orders of the Founder Acarya strictly,can't really deliver his disciples completely!

ccd:

govindas108:One must die and take birth again or become twice born! According to my understanding,brahman initiation means to reject all sinful way of living[the sinful personality dies!],and a new personality with brahmanic qualities is born,[second birth] by regular practice of sadhana,and obeying the orders of his bonafide spiritual master,who succeeded to go back to Godhead,by following his spiritual master's orders. Anyone who can't follow the orders of the Founder Acarya strictly,can't really deliver his disciples completely!

Do you have any sastric pramana, preferably from Bhagavatam/sruti/smriti or pancaratra to the above. I will add it to my collection of extreme instructions.

I hope you've understood my quote:I don't mean one should die physically,but one's sinful personality has to "die" meaning one should never commit sinful activities again.It's actually the formal vow that all devotees take upon receiving initiation,confirmed by brahman initiation.Look also in Nectar of Devotion ,ch one,verse one.