On behalf of Rocana dasa, myself, HareKrsna.com and the Sampradaya Sun, the answer is no, we are not a Rtvik site. Our position is clearly stated:

In Rocana's paper, "The Church of Rtvik":
http://www.harekrsna.com/vada/writings/church_of_rtvik.htm

In his "Sampradaya Acarya" paper:
http://www.harekrsna.com/vada/writings/sampradaya_acarya.htm

and is evidenced by our long-standing challenge to the West Coast Rtviks and their siddhantic leader, Yasodanandana dasa, who has consistently refused to debate Rocana and defend his Rtvik conclusion.

Who says we are Rtviks?

Many of those in the institution who don't like to be challenged philosophically, particularly on issues of guru-tattva, ISKCON initiation policies, institutional leadership and history, and Srila Prabhupada's exalted status as minimized in Lilamrta and as inherent to ISKCON's positions on initiation, the Gaudiya Matha, etc.

and

Those who cannot understand how/why the Sun would allow Rtviks to have a platform to express their position unless we ourselves were Rtviks.

Thanks for asking. Hare Krsna.

Is that Jahnavi or Jahnava?

One interesting thing is this: a commitment to free speech is not demonstrated by allowing things that you agree with, but by defending the right to speak of people that you disagree with.

I don't agree with what some people say, but yeah, I'll defend their right to say it (and my right to ignore or disagree with it), because if I wanted an atmosphere of intellectual intolerance and fanaticism, I would go to Afghanistan and join the Taliban. At least there you get to fire an AK-47. You haven't been able to do that in ISKCON since the 80's.

I personally view Sampradaya Sun as the WWF of Vaisnava websites. That's where you go for smackdown, and no I don't read it, although I did see something on there the other day when I googled my own name...

well hey, if WWF isn't your scene, then why not just say so? ;-)

we do not "filter the crowd" in this site and devotees are responding nicely. We keep a sharp eye on correct behaviour, but everybody is allowed. And that is and will be (Krishna willing) our collective success.

I thought you were referring to this WWF:
http://www.panda.org/ :)

the question is... why doesn't happen here and it does in the 99.9 percent of forums?r
And I answer myself :)
cause the focus is on civilized behaviour and openness. Then it filters itself, so to say.

on the process of censorship ...

my advice is to encourage a format where people don't post anonymously using a 'net name' and that they should post an actual picture of themselves.

We should see your face - especially if you have something provocative to say. (some exceptions could be allowed though in rare circumstances)

I don't like the 'big brother watching' format where someone who doesn't agree with you can delete your posts and then leave the one's up that make you look like an idiot.

Since censorship would also stifle the very cool mood thus far established here I say we just pound abusers of this facility into shape. Organic justice system.

btw - I'm just kidding about the miliitant breakaway group remark in the post above - don't want that one quoted 10 years down the road.

I use my name but I'm not posting my picture

I've nothing to hide if you want to find me me you can

But I'd rather make it a little difficult for a nut case to accost me in the street.

My photo is on the internet but only where I allow it, only one of them actually says who I am.

Oh an Sampradaya Sun appears not to be a Ritvik site

in some forums I have posted in you post is deleted if it is not on topic

i am using my real picture now... :)

oh my, that sounds like a hodge-podge mish-mash "hang the dog" statement!.[p]
Mixing "condemnation of ISKCON" "vaishnava aparadha", "ritvik theory", "undermining faith", "vaishnava etiquette", please, please, one at a time.[p]
Demonstrate, where the ritvik theory is propounded at S.Sun as per the question at this thread. [p]
I am as curious as you are.

i don't really understand why you're blasting poor old KC sena like this. it's not the first post where several topics have been mixed together.

he quotes HH danavir maharaja's statement, and in some points i do agree with the maharaja.

so-called ritvik-theory isn't promoted by the editors of the sun, but they offer it's proponents a platform to propagate the theory.

you also find posts which, at least to me, appear openly offensive to ISKCON devotees, which is against vaisnava etiquette.

as i said before, i'm not proposing to ban or close the sun, but it's not a site i would recommend for new or not very experienced devotees to read, because it might undermine their faith in ISKCON.

perhaps my opinion is antiquated and not very fashionable at this time, but i think that faith in ISKCON is a good thing for devotees to have. not blind faith, mind you, but as ekendra prabhu said, there's a way to voice criticism properly, and many articles in the sun don't do it that way.

to say that you agree with Maharaj on the whole, while he is making "offenses" to the Sun, calling them ritviks ...

[p]excuse me please, that's not what i said. i agreed with maharja on some points, and said that the sun's editors were not promoting 'ritvik theory.' i don't call them a "ritvik site," and therefore pledge innocent to the accusation of being an offender to the sun.[/p]
[p]... at least according to the reasons you mentioned. i realize i'll have to read the sun's articles and editorials again and find out if my criticism re. offenses and promotion of ritvik apasiddhanta in others' posts is still justified. i didn't read the whole sun in quite some time, and before making these statements i should check if they are still true.[/p]

faith sustained by ignorance of the total facts w/o all angles and views, it is antiquated, does not work and makes good brains wonder about our self-criticism capacity.

[p]i'm happy that i didn't have to learn all the details about the zonal-acarya system and other aberrations during the time when i joined, in 1982. the madras temple was run by sober, honest SP disciples who didn't agree with what was happening, but didn't preach to their new bhaktas about ISKCON politics. if they had, i don't know if i would have stayed.[/p]
[p]for newcomers to KC it's more important to learn about the basic principles of SP's teachings than to try to understand things even older devotees have a hard time to digest. this can be abused, of course, by indoctrinating new devotees into one or the other camp. i would suggest to leave them alone with these things until they're ready to take initiation. by then they should know what's going on to be able to make an informed decision.[/p]

i've just been reading the sampradaya sun again, more or less in it's entirety, and must admit that my previous statement, that many articles are openly offensive towards devotees, isn't justified.

rocana prabhu, a disciple of srila prabhupada, can argue with and about his godbrothers in a more direct way than i would consider appropriate for myself. there is a predominanat atmosphere of finding fault with ISKCON's present leadership, but then there are faults, and in this way the sun provides a counterpoint to other site's style of reporting, which tends to ignore all faults, prefering to deal with these behind closed doors only.

nevertheless i maintain my opinion that, for devotees new to KC, reading the sun probably isn't a helpful exercise. much better to chant for some time, follow the regs, and do some service, getting to understand what KC is all about. i don't see how, for someone who's understanding is on a purely theoretical level, to engage in this type of discussion will be any help. discussing all the faults that are there in ISKCON today, plus some that aren't, such a new devotee will probably develop an attitude that won't allow him to appreciate even those things and devotees who are trying to follow SP's instructions and example - and believe it or not, these can still be found.

My understanding is that you lose far much much more "shielding" the new devotees these days.
There is a balance between hiding as "protection", backfiring so many times and criticism as main theme bringing hate into focus.
You will never lose anything explaining the open truth to an intelligent person. Others, we are not interested in convincing anyway.

did not say "desirable" I did say "not interested to convince them" I am a sankirtan devotee, Prabhu, everyday with the "fallen". Certainly not hating "them"
intelligent means brahmana, that can and wants to understand, For others prasadam, kirtan and ceremonies will do.

we are loping the loop, now I can't understand were we where...ah yes, sampradaya sun is not a rtvik site. Great.

If i was to begin propounding this ritvik idea and i was not mentioning the "Parpampra" concept/Path would i be or not be a ritvik preacher??(to whatever degree)
so as far as i may understand this website propounds ritvik so is as good as ritvik.
Hare Krsna

...Rocana Prabhu will gladly post ANY submmision by ANY GBC member,so isn't it a pro-gbc-freindly site ?

There is Parpampra and there is this new idea about creating an end to it in, IE: suggesting Swami Maharaja will from some point only initiate. Right? If i invent another idea that i may, at the same time promote both...... and declare myself bi-partisan perhaps I should begin with, learning the Sidhanta. Right? Maybe this question should capture better perspective by re-stating the web-site's definitions, like what is a Guru/Disciple in the Hare Krsna, Vaisnava teachings? Because what i understand is if someone creates something new like a post-vapu ritvik "program" It is not(as far as this "puppy brain" knows!) "Parpampra" or Sidhanta or Gaudya Vaisnava but actually debases the whole system. Therefore what is the use of this propaganda on websites like, "The Sun"... or perhaps i could better put it "Rahu"

Having been a contributor to sun sampradaya for several months i was surprised and dismayed at the inherent bias and small minded nature of the editing staff.I at first thought that rocanna das was attempting to be progressive in dealing with many neophyte contributors........however he allows blaspheme of many senior vaisnava's such as tamala krishna goswami to go undefended ....this is extremely offensive .The regular writers and contributors all seem intent on grindind down the efforts and preaching mission of AC Bhactivedanta swami Prabhupada.

Dear devotees, the latest comments are an interesting read. Srisaci, prabhu, we understand that you're angry at Ray Lanthier, and obviously angry at the Sun for printing his personal criticisms of you. Interesting that you should scoot over here to complain, rather than face your challenger in the forum where the original dispute went public.

If you're asking whether Rocana (or I) would stand before Srila Prabhupada and read to him all of the letters written by all Sun submitters, the answer is no. We would be embarrassed to do so, because some of them are so philosophically off, filled with mundane sentiment, or poor logic. Would we stand before him and report that we have given a venue for free speech, even to those who are still grappling with the philosophy, or their own sentimental tendencies? Yes, we would, and we think he would approve, given the circumstances we are seeking to right in his preaching mission, which is so under attack. Would we stand before him and read the things we've personally written? Yes, we certainly would, and we assume that we've already done so, the minute we put finger to keyboard and wrote them.

Yuga Avatar das, your most recent articles have been rejected because they were so poorly written. You've made tons of comments, unsubstantiated, without sastric reference, without corroboration, without even complete explanations. Like a pro-GBC/Guru parrot, you have sometimes simply responded to whatever anyone else said in complaint, calling them aparadhis, non-devotees, crows, etc. On several occasions, we have written back to you, pointing out problems in your articles that need to be addressed/corrected/clarified. A few times you've come back with re-writes, which we've published. But more recently, you have simply not responded. So why blame us when your work doesn't get published?

Jai Pariprashnena!

Jahnava
Sampradaya Sun

I personally am not a ritvik and I am not "ISKCON guru friendly" as you put it. Rather than get into a long drawn out discussion -- the best way I can explain my position is directing your attention to the following quote from a letter written by Srila Prabhupada. Here he discloses the real intentions of his guru maharaja, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, as far as the future of Gaudiya Math was concerned. Of course his instructions were not followed and we all know the history from that point on. So read carefully this excerpt and then you should understand that the situation is not limited to only two possibilities (ritvik or appointed/elected gurus).

".......If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected."

You might then wonder how would newcomers be initiated. Understand that initiation of a disciple by a bona fide guru is not a mechanical thing. We understand from Sastra that by the mercy of Krishna one eventually finds his guru and then by the mercy of the guru the seed of bhakti is planted within the heart of the sincere disciple. It is nothing automatic or ecclesiastic. Neither should one be in a big rush. Srila Prabhupada himself did not take initiation until many years went by after first meeting his guru maharaja. So after Srila Prabhupada disappeared -- in his vani form he remains siksa guru for everyone and for all time -- but as far as diksha --- all in good time. Right?

If you want to understand more you can write to me personally at Swoop108@yahoo.com

Your servant,
Swarup Das

Though these celebrated bhakta's seem your best hope of some sort of devotional redemption,especially since you would not interested in my humble attempts to safeguard my guru's reputation from your'' gutter''music -offensive diatribe.At least one is initiated,so you have attracted some one who has indeed bothered to get into possibly srila Prabhupada's team.Try going on sankirtan and preaching to the non envious...it may help to see real sadhu's.Your servant yuga avatar das

It's not a matter of banning some people's writing, though that may occur in some extreme cases. I've had about as many articles rejected as published there. The ones that were rejected were given specific reasons. I did not always agree, but their position was justifiable in each case. Actually, the two most recent articles I submitted that were not published were presenting a rtvik viewpoint, so I would definitely say they're not a pro-rtvik site even though they publish articles discussing it from various angles.