Social: [Closed] is sampradaya sun a ritvik site?

This is a website of devotees frustrated by actions of Madhu Pandit who expelled them, nonritviks, from the temple. So it's hard to expect any pleasant feelings on their side. It was just an example, not that I'm 'happily associated' with it. It's all work of Kali, divide and conquer. That can't be denied.

CCD: "Interesting that that devotee was into being 'ritvik' but completely gave up this idea after this conversation."
In my opinion, it was a wise decision. It does not make any sense to take initiation and then reject Guru. Even Mayavadis don't do that.(Take initiation and then reject Guru).

I was trying to find initiation process in Ritvik temple(Bangalore), this is what I have discovered:

In the meantime the devotees in Bangalore are being initiated by Srila Prabhupada personally. When the Temple President considers a devotee to be ready for initiation he writes a letter recommending the devotee to Srila Prabhupada. Then the devotee goes before Srila Prabhupada and prays: “Dear Srila Prabhupada currently your ritvik representatives are not doing their service so I am asking you to please accept me as your disciple and inspire me to select a spiritual name.” So in this way the ISKCON Bangalore devotees are being initiated by Srila Prabhupada.

ISKCON Bangalore plans to increase the number of devotees waiting for formal initiation from Srila Prabhupada to one thousand. Then every year they will go to the Mayapur festival and have a grand kirtan and request the GBC to appoint a ritvik representative of Srila Prabhupada as Srila Prabhupada outlines in his July 9th, 1977 letter so the devotees can be formally initiated.

Source: http://krishna.org/iskcon-accepts-one-ritvik-temple-and-irm-disintegrates/

And I remember,few months ago(I read on Sampradaya Sun), before court awarded temple to Bangalore devotees, Madhu Pandit wrote a peace proposal to GBC to surrender Bangalore temple and all its braches, which was eventually refused.

That proposal is still there on SS:
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-09/editorials4063.htm

Again few days agon on SS, I read that ISKCON Mumbai is finding it hard to continue feeding school children so they might discontinue that program soon. I find it really funny that on one side they criticize Bangalore's midday meal programme calling it philanthrophy and on the other hand they imitate their program as well by trying to implement it in ISKCON.

Veda: "It's all work of Kali, divide and conquer. That can't be denied."
Division is not always bad. Sometimes it can be very good as well. If it is taken in the spirit of competition it is very healthy but if it is taken in the spirit of envy it can be very disastrous. There is very fine line between competition and enviousness.

It reminds me of a story. I apologise that I do not know the source of this story and neither I know if it is true or false. I just heard it from my elders. But the story is beautiful. Story is:

Once Narada Muni while travelling came to planet earth. Wandering on planet earth, he came across an old lady who happened to be a hunchback. Narada feeling very compassionate towards the lady said, "O mother, please come here, I am very pleased and I will straighten your back. Old lady replied,"Maharaja, if you are really pleased, do not straighten my back, rather give me a different boon. Preplexed Narada asked, "What other boon you want?" Rather than fixing my back, the lady who lives next door to me(my neighbour), please make her a hunchback, replied the old lady.

So this is enviousness. Competition is healthy, it does not ask bad for others. When someone is filled with spirit of competition, he wants his progress but does not want bad for others. On contrary when someone is filled with spirit of enviousness, he does not want his progress, he only wishes bad for others. So division is not necessarily bad, it depends in which spirit you take it. If Bangalore devotees have opened 15 new preaching centres in last 5 years, GBCs can have a competition with them that they have opened 15 so we shall open 20 in next 5 years. This spirit will benefit the society.

But if they take it in an envious spirit, decide that our back is broken so we shall break their back as well by court cases, it will do no good to society. And this is what they have been doing for last 10 years. These devotees, the amount of money and time, energy what they have wasted in courts for last 10 years, they could have another temple by now and both parties could have their own temple.

Ritvik is already used as a swear word in ISKCON, so I don't think so I need to say anything about them, but in the actions of our GBCs in handling this case, I do not see any signs of great wisdom either. By fighting with Ritviks in court over a property, they have proved only one thing that they are ordinary envious human beings, not the ones whom we shall beg to give us Krsna Prema. Knowledge is judged by the behaviour not by giving beautiful lecture only.

VEDA:> So in this way the ISKCON Bangalore devotees are being initiated by Srila Prabhupada. If this wouldn't be offensive, it could be a joke. How's that different from Ekalavya, the self-proclaimed sisya of Drona?

It is different because Srila Prabhupada specified his criteria for accepting disciples, established a system whereby he would continue to accept disciples vowing to follow his rules, and ordered his disciples to give initiation on his behalf. He set up this system of managing initiations, and in his Will said the management should not change. He never said it should or must stop upon his disappearance; on the contrary, when asked about how initiations should be done after his disappearance he immediately said by "officiating acarya," a.k.a. "rtvik acarya," and clarified the matter with an letter sent to all of ISKCON's leaders. These rtvik acaryas decided to play as guru acaryas without qualification or authorization and the results were and continue to be a disaster. To hear of devotees begging Srila Prabhupada's mercy to overcome the obstacles placed by his disobedient disciples is very touching. The major difference here is that Drona had rejected Ekalavya as his disciple. Srila Prabhupada has not rejected us, but rather given a system for accepting us as disciples. The current problem is not aspiring devotees ambitious to become great by becoming disciples; it is ambitious disciples wanting to be honored as guru and putting down anyone who gets in their way. The anti-rtviks say that becoming Srila Prabhupada's disciple now is impersonal because it denies him the option of rejecting; but they are denying him the option of accepting, the actual option he has already chosen. Srila Prabhupada was not a guru in the rejecting mood. He accepted disciples whom he met once and had little interest, and he accepted disciples whom he never met at all. He accepted anyone who agreed to surrender whether they were serious or not. Now there are many serious devotees who want a bona fide guru and have their hearts set upon Srila Prabhupada. Anti-rtviks are so determined to make sure aspiring devotees are rejected by Srila Prabhupada that they totally disregard his actual mood, desire, and order.

VEDA:> By fighting with Ritviks in court over a property, they have proved only one thing that they are ordinary envious human beings, not the ones whom we shall beg to give us Krsna Prema. So since Srila Prabhupada fought over Juhu temple property with Mr. Nair, he is also an 'ordinary envious human being'...? Hope you see the problem with your argument.

Veda, you allow yourself to equate ISKCON devotees, who are labeled by GBC as "ritviks", with Mr. Nair. Not to comment on your other remarks.... Sorry, but you seem to have some serious issues. This thread is about Sampradaya Sun, and it was explained again and again that Sampradaya Sun is NOT ritvik site. But you keep ranting and ranting, promoting your disturbing fanatical politics, demonizing everyone who is not willing to buy your distorted views. Why are you promoting all this politics here on Pariprashnena? This subject matter is clearly out of your league. It is just your ego babbling on and on. I know, you are not used to be defeated, you are such a great scholar, very learned in the field of vedas. You always have answer to everything. Now, please, just forget all the nonsense you think you know, and just happily chant Hare Krsna in association of devotees. You will be fine eventually, you'll see.

I think you guys forget that it was Madhupandit who took GBC to court...

Anyway - the description of 'the process' of initiation in Bangalor temple sounds like a scam. It sounds like they try to take Prabhupada out of Samadhi and put him in a coma, if you get my drift.

Pandu P., you're evading the point I comment on - the sitting before SP murti, pronouncing some formula, choosing one's name and calling oneself a SP disciple.

> He never said it should or must stop upon his disappearance; on the contrary, when asked about how initiations should be done after his disappearance he immediately said by "officiating acarya," a.k.a. "rtvik acarya," and clarified the matter with an letter sent to all of ISKCON's leaders.

He never elaborated on your proposition either. And it'd deserve a super elaboration, not just one letter, due to going against the age-old system. So I opt for his overhearing and refering to pre-tirobhava instead of making him a deviant.

> Srila Prabhupada has not rejected us

But he rejected some deviant disciples. Nitai das being one of them.

Therefore I asked you to ask him and Krsna about their opinion. Let us know please.

> The anti-rtviks say that becoming Srila Prabhupada's disciple now is impersonal because it denies him the option of rejecting; but they are denying him the option of accepting, the actual option he has already chosen.

The ritvikism brings more problems than that. Like: How the actual personal training goes? Questions/answers, personal instructions, chastisement? In a dream? Siksa - yes, diksa - no (the example of Sitadevi).
One may say that many of later disciples never got these either but they're still an inherent part of discipleship. Those SP disciples only suffered from 'logistic problem', being many and SP one, like most current disciples of world-travelling gurus who get personal association of their guru only once in a while.

> it is ambitious disciples wanting to be honored as guru and putting down anyone who gets in their way.

I don't think anyone here votes for ahankara.

Giri-nayaka P.:

> Veda, you allow yourself to equate ISKCON devotees, who are labeled by GBC as "ritviks", with Mr. Nair.

The point was 'fighting over property = envious'. It's besides the point with whom.

Mr. Nair only wanted material profit but ritviks want to subvert the whole parampara system, an extreme himsa to baddha jivas.

I didn't bring ritvikism here, I just reply to posts as brief as possible, sticking to gss. You may label me any way you want, I don't mind. But you can't prove me wrong by pramana otherwise you'd already did it.

> You always have answer to everything.

Hehe, far from that. I just try to serve others by finding refs. Facts instead of personal likes or dislikes (manoratha). It takes a lot of time sometimes. I'm not a computer.

This exchange is not at all my favorite type. But I can't avoid to show the nonsensical
nature of deviation by evidence and logic.

I'm all for locking this thread if the site software allows it.