Social: [Closed] is sampradaya sun a ritvik site?

I guess you mean this site:
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/

who said it is?

i wouldn't call the sampradaya sun 'ritivik.' i remember reading those papers quoted by jahnavi mataji quite some time ago, and they're not straight "ritvik theory," as put forward by yasodanandana, adridharana, TFO. i can't remember exactly what rocana pr.'s siddhanta was (and the topic isn't important enough for me to read it all over again), but i remember it as something inbetween, giving more importance to SP, miniimizing the present gurus, but trying to leave the sastric guru-idea intact.

in the beginning i found the sampradaya sun quite interesting and read it regularly, even though i didn't agree with all the philosophical points made by rocan. recently, though, whenever i open it all that catches my eye are violent attacks on ISKCON, with and without any basis, but full of polemic and little useful information.

if rocan and jahnavi feel it's their duty to offer a platform to all types of emotional and questionable opinions, that's their prerogative; but it's mine not to read it anymore.

Is that Jahnavi or Jahnava?

sorry, it's jahnava

One interesting thing is this: a commitment to free speech is not demonstrated by allowing things that you agree with, but by defending the right to speak of people that you disagree with.

oh, i don't propose to ban or close the sampradaya sun. all glories to free speech. but i don't have to like it. and if the same atmosphere i perceive at the sun was predominant here, i wouldn't be here, either.

free speech is ok, but if you run a place (virtual or real) you try to create or encourage a certain atmosphere that people either like or don't like, and consequently they'll come to your place or they don't. you are a proponent, if i remember correctly, of not allowing aggressive druggies, punks, or dirty bums into the sunday feast together with the more "civilized" crowd. that's the same, IMO, as applying some filtering to the crowd that frequents your web site.

abhiram:I guess you mean this site: http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/ who said it is?

http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/231/how-do-iskcon-devotees-become-ritviks/#Item_11

sitapati:Is that Jahnavi or Jahnava? I would go to Afghanistan and join the Taliban. At least there you get to fire an AK-47. You haven't been able to do that in ISKCON since the 80's.

:)

sitapati: I personally view Sampradaya Sun as the WWF of Vaisnava websites. That's where you go for smackdown, and no I don't read it, although I did see something on there the other day when I googled my own name...

it is an accurate description http://www.nidhin.com/images/free/wwe-wwf-old-veterans-champions.jpg

we do not "filter the crowd" in this site and devotees are responding nicely.

with "filtering" i didn't mean by banning people, or telling them how to behave or what (not) to say. filtering here happens by the variety of devotees with different opinions who manage to deal nicely with each other and don't repsond in kind to aggressive posts.

the predominant mood of the whole forum isn't conducive to flaming wars and shouting matches, that's the type of filtering i mean. (probably not a good term; influencing would be better.)

i also think it's important not to blast or ban devotees who have problems controlling their anger sometimes. a community should be strong enough to tolerate a little abusive behavior at times, trying to influence members in question with common sense and better arguments. as long as there's a positive balance, things can work.

sitapati:Is that Jahnavi or Jahnava? One interesting thing is this: a commitment to free speech is not demonstrated by allowing things that you agree with, but by defending the right to speak of people that you disagree with. I don't agree with what some people say, but yeah, I'll defend their right to say it (and my right to ignore or disagree with it), because if I wanted an atmosphere of intellectual intolerance and fanaticism, I would go to Afghanistan and join the Taliban. At least there you get to fire an AK-47. You haven't been able to do that in ISKCON since the 80's. I personally view Sampradaya Sun as the WWF of Vaisnava websites. That's where you go for smackdown, and no I don't read it, although I did see something on there the other day when I googled my own name...

This whole post had me splitting with laughter. WWF - so true. AK-47's are for pansies though. check out this bad boy. If I ever start a militant breakaway group I'm issuing these with SOPMOD kits.

ekendra: my advice is to encourage a format where people don't post anonymously using a 'net name' and that they should post an actual picture of themselves. We should see your face - especially if you have something provocative to say. (some exceptions could be allowed though in rare circumstances)

It will discourage some people from posting, and not only those who have something provocative to say... So far I have seen that only very mature and confident devotees post their own pictures and their real names, and many of them are "high profile" ones, whom everyone knows and whose views are known to everyone too. Some of them have their own websites, and most of them are experienced preachers and can put their ideas into words with ease. Personally I do not have the courage (and probably maturity) to post under my real name when such sharks (in Vedic sense :) are around. I become self-conscious; and I don't mean conscious of my real self... unfortunately...

For me it is more important what is said than who says it. And as you see ekendra, many people could be ruled out of the scene by putting strenuous rules. I find that keeping mild wording and non personal provocation mood, while allowing freedom of speech, will suffice to keep the forum like it is now: a pleasurable and interesting venue for sadhu sanga.

http://rvc.edu/news/
SUN OR RAHU?
From Danavir Goswami
posted October 29, 2005
Several devotees have asked for my opinion about a news site named Sampradaya Sun (SS) which has recently begun to broadcast ISKCON-related topics on the internet. The website is puzzling because, on one hand it strives to appear "ISKCON-friendly" by displaying colorful photos of Krishna, devotional announcements, preaching reports and editorials, etc. while on the other hand it propounds ritvik theory, Vaisnava aparadha and condemnation of ISKCON. I find it like using Krishna as bait for a wicked hook.

On the whole, I think SS seriously breeches Vaisnava etiquette and undermines the faith of ISKCON devotees in the process of bhakti as given by Srila Prabhupada.

He he Abhiram. laugh out loud as they say on the internet

first obviously you can't close or ban the Sun from the internet (althought if you could... :)
second, we do offer here a free speech platform for discussion of ritvik, in a proper way.
third, faith sustained by ignorance of the total facts w/o all angles and views, it is antiquated, does not work and makes good brains wonder about our self-criticism capacity.
and last, to say that you agree with Maharaj on the whole, while he is making "offenses" to the Sun, calling them ritviks, etc etc puts you on an "offensive" category.
so, who is entitled to criticize without making offenses? the top elite leaders only? Are we "all others" going to the offensors pit as soon as we disagree with the established power?
Not good. Not fair.

who is entitled to criticize without making offenses?

everybody is, as long as it's constructive, i.e., with the intention to improve things.

i don't think that rocana prabhu and jahnava mataji have bad intentions towards SP and his movement. i do believe, though, that they are getting carried away by offenses others, ISKCON leaders, have committed against them, and by mistakes being made by the leadership. instead of criticizing these in a way that i would find acceptable, they are offering a platform for anybody with a grudge against ISKCON, never mind if they promote apasiddhanta or offend devotees (up-to-date verification of these claims still pending ...).

a couple of years earlier i found the sun very much acceptable and read it regularly; i guess i'll do that again, reading it, i mean. i'll see if i find it acceptable or not. if i change my mind i'll let you know.

why dont you invite again the SS people and let them defend themselves from Davavir´s maharaj accusations?

> faults, prefering to deal with these behind closed doors only

ISKCON must be one of the most open groups since so many like to bring every fault of its leaders into public. Most other groups, companies, etc. try to fix problems 'at home'. Really intriguing.

true, i don't think 'shielding' can effectively be done nowadays - unless you're in some remote community w/o internet access. and you're right, attempted shielding by the GBC has often been cause for many devotees to be even more fried than they would have been otherwise.

i'd just not recommend the sun as a useful resource for new devotees; if they go there anyway, nothing much to do about it.

but i don't agree with your definition of desirable devotees, that we're only interested in the 'intelligent' ones. real intelligence means understanding that we are part & parcel & eternal servant of krsna, and acting on that understanding. it doesn't necessarily include the ability to follow complicated arguments or detect crooked sophisticated discussion techniques.

taking your last two posts, we are only interested in educating brahmanas? anybody else, just take some prasadam and chant during arotik? what happened to varna-asrama?

......the Sampradaya Sun is not a ritvik site,period.Maybe a new question should be posted , What is the Sampradaya Sun's basic editorial spin ?

Little men that hate all that is not within their narrow view like to call names without reason and proof, what can we do?
It is all driven by fear of challenging the truth, but the truth only can be obtained by doubting. Vivid examples are the mass Jehova witnesses etc.
Sadly, we are not free from this people in our ranks.
Avoid them like the plague.

There is Parpampra and there is this new idea about creating an end to it in, IE: suggesting Swami Maharaja will from some point only initiate. Right? If i invent another idea that i may, at the same time promote both...... and declare myself bi-partisan perhaps I should begin with, learning the Sidhanta. Right? Maybe this question should capture better perspective by re-stating the web-site's definitions, like what is a Guru/Disciple in the Hare Krsna, Vaisnava teachings? Because what i understand is if someone creates something new like a post-vapu ritvik "program" It is not(as far as this "puppy brain" knows!) "Parpampra" or Sidhanta or Gaudya Vaisnava but actually debases the whole system. Therefore what is the use of this propaganda on websites like, "The Sun"... or perhaps i could better put it "Rahu"

Having been a contributor to sun sampradaya for several months i was surprised and dismayed at the inherent bias and small minded nature of the editing staff.I at first thought that rocanna das was attempting to be progressive in dealing with many neophyte contributors........however he allows blaspheme of many senior vaisnava's such as tamala krishna goswami to go undefended ....this is extremely offensive .The regular writers and contributors all seem intent on grindind down the efforts and preaching mission of AC Bhactivedanta swami Prabhupada.

Dear devotees, the latest comments are an interesting read. Srisaci, prabhu, we understand that you're angry at Ray Lanthier, and obviously angry at the Sun for printing his personal criticisms of you. Interesting that you should scoot over here to complain, rather than face your challenger in the forum where the original dispute went public.

If you're asking whether Rocana (or I) would stand before Srila Prabhupada and read to him all of the letters written by all Sun submitters, the answer is no. We would be embarrassed to do so, because some of them are so philosophically off, filled with mundane sentiment, or poor logic. Would we stand before him and report that we have given a venue for free speech, even to those who are still grappling with the philosophy, or their own sentimental tendencies? Yes, we would, and we think he would approve, given the circumstances we are seeking to right in his preaching mission, which is so under attack. Would we stand before him and read the things we've personally written? Yes, we certainly would, and we assume that we've already done so, the minute we put finger to keyboard and wrote them.

Yuga Avatar das, your most recent articles have been rejected because they were so poorly written. You've made tons of comments, unsubstantiated, without sastric reference, without corroboration, without even complete explanations. Like a pro-GBC/Guru parrot, you have sometimes simply responded to whatever anyone else said in complaint, calling them aparadhis, non-devotees, crows, etc. On several occasions, we have written back to you, pointing out problems in your articles that need to be addressed/corrected/clarified. A few times you've come back with re-writes, which we've published. But more recently, you have simply not responded. So why blame us when your work doesn't get published?

Jai Pariprashnena!

Jahnava
Sampradaya Sun

Since i have been personally addressed by jhanava das or dasi representing the sun sampradaya staff,i would like to say that obviously your editorial staff have a perverted bias against senior devotees in ISKCON.Your major contributors like ray lanthier ,george a smith,mahavidya das seem intent on criticism,innuendo and sad commentry followed by an inept lacking of devotional training and lastly aparadha's usually directed at those ''jewish bodied'' in the ISKCON ranks.

yuga_avatar_das, sorry, but what is your problem?

I read Sun regularly, and I contributed some texts. Your view is so negative.... I really wonder what is your problem?

If you don't like articles by some authors, just skip them. You don't have to read EVERYTHING!!! I mean, there is plenty of nectar on Sun. Didn't you notice? Are you able to see good in attempts of devotees at Sun? It shouldn't be too hard to see good.

You criticize some authors on Sun for being criticizers. Do you think that criticizing those, who you decide to label as criticizers, makes you a good person?
If you preach against criticizm, shouldn't at least you be able to live up to your own expectations?

BTW, I don't agree with decision of Sun editrial to ban your posts. I'd be interested to read your opinions. I hope Sun editors will reconsider their decision, and post your texts. But, hey, if they don't, really, what is the problem?

ys gnd

Actually what the sun sampradaya is involved in is similar to tabloid news paper industry.They allow sensationalism of sex offending,ritvik-apa sampradaya nonsense,american -canadian yatra's failures,their local racist -anti semetic dogma in connection with several past and present members of the GBC including several of my siksa guru.Dressed up and slanted in your sad western''freedom of speech''rhetoric while imposing many times inconsistent and plain offensive editorial standards.I am sorry that when i see this ''give a dog a bad name and hang it'',being used on ISKCON ,and its transcendental leadership ,many of whom i personally have known for thirty or so years,i don't jump for joy.When the sun staff disagree with our devotional moods, especially when they have allowed ''spiritual abuse and blaspheme''of my guru to be published without any defensive articles being allowed on their behalf it is indeed cruel and perverted.I am sorry for the many implicated kanistha bhakta's who look for their sad nourishment on sun sampradaya .