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Philosophy: "woman likes a man who is very expert at rape" Comments?

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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2008 edited
     
    Although rape is not legally allowed, it is a fact that a woman likes a man who is very expert at rape. (SB 4.25.41, p.)

    Nature has given the women the urge to get a "leader of the pack" male and among qualities like valiant, intelligent and smart there is the notion that if he can take her by force he is worth of her.
    Meaning not a rape act without consent whatsoever and with violence and pain, but rather a tacit consent. Female chooses mates, and she likes to choose one that has the qualities of leader that has initiative and forceful acquiring of goods, which includes her.
    Woman do not like a woosy man that tries to please her but a man that chooses and obtains her "by force".
    That is also because she knows he has to provide for her and the offspring and protect them, she needs a qualified companion.
    That is a Nature mechanism to keep quality in species, including human beings.
    Of course we are talking from the material point of view, but at the moment we are tainted with the modes, so it is good to know the details and the functioning so that someday we will be free from all this.

    related: http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/637/what-do-you-think-about-gbc-resolution-311-to-annotate-and-explain-sps-books
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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2008
     
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
     
    Its an old use of Victorian or pre-Victorian language. See Titian: Rape of Europa as an example. It should have been replaced just as old use of word gay. The correct word is kidnaping.
    Thankful People: mishra
  4.  
    ccd:Its an old use of Victorian or pre-Victorian language. See Titian: Rape of Europa as an example. It should have been replaced just as old use of word gay. The correct word is kidnaping.

    Thank you. I appreciate your reply. I haven't met many who would, or could answer the "rape" question. I know you're thoughtful with your words and that you are very knowledgeable in Vedanta. I was wondering if you could clear up a question I have regarding your reply?

    Srila Prabhupada seems to be connecting rape as aggressive sex. Is your explanation that Srila Prabhupada used "rape" to mean kidnapping? If so, it doesn't seem appropriate in context of the verse. Although aggression may be generally connected to kidnapping, it doesn't seem to fit in contextually with the SB4.25.41 verse and purport. Can you explain how it does?

    Thanks again.
    BP

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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
     
    If you look at the start of the purport you will see that its about one who is a 'great hero' to his wife. And a man is always famous for his aggression is certainly a type of kingly aggressor, who sometimes rides on a 'white horse' and kidnaps 'beautiful maidens' (rape). You should not equate aggression with violence. I do not know many girls who did not dream about a prince (ie kingly order) who will arrive on a white horse to 'snap them off their feet'. After all that what means to be famous, in the historical context. Of course you can say that Paris of Troy is not really famous, but that is not true, he is famous! That is the fame in the material world and girls dream about it.
    • CommentAuthorSyam
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
     
    Danvants,

    I am a celibate female and I do not find the quote offensive but the way you Prabus have decided to interpret it. Rape is a crime of violence not of passion, and does not just happen to women but children as well as men.

    I don't think any of you understand women at all and you do not speak in the mood of our Guru. Our Guru did not have the intention that men should act like cavemen dragging us off or that a woman would ever enjoy such things. We are suppose to be your daughters, mothers and chaste wives as treated as such.

    I am not goods or chattel to be whisked off.

    Too many things have been misunderstood already and it has done much harm to KC. Men protect women, not harm them.
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2008
     
    <I am a celibate female and I do not find the quote offensive but the way you Prabus have decided to interpret it.>

    Good. We agree that men protect women. Do you assume that we here on this forum are all man?
    Thankful People: Syam
    • CommentAuthorSyam
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2008
     
    Pranams CCD, I am sorry for assuming you are male. Some things are so easily misunderstood and this is the reason we need living guru to explain these things to those that wish to speculate instead of surrender to a real guru in the Sampradaya.

    Jai Radhe!
    • CommentAuthordeena
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2008
     
    I always understood this quote in terms of the yin and yang sign, which I believe roughly equates to same basic meaning as purusha and prakrti. The principle is that the masculine energy (action, forceful) dominates the feminine (nuturing, passive) energy. This is their natural relationship, and it has a whole spectrum of variegated expressions on the subtle and gross levels according to the modes.
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2008
     
    Use of non standard Indian English often confuses. Prabhupada used to say cent percent for example and call people by first name Mr.Brian or Mr.Stephen - not your comon use in American English. The purport is about a 'hero' not your regular hero, but an Indian English meaning of it; "hero" is used to mean a male protagonist in a story. Just a small observation of the language gaps. I am sure that in this context Prabhupada is coming here from raptio - abduction of women for marriage it is surmised to have been common since anthropological antiquity... Like in Rape of the Sabine Women.

    The purport is not about modern women and not about celebate practitioner in bhakti yoga, its about times of king Puranjana...
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008
     
    Your should remember that Prabhupada was not not American and did not subscribe to many concepts of modern interpretations and when we interpret him from 'our' perspective we risk putting our words in his purports, a very very dangerous path may I add.
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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008
     
    "Your should remember that Prabhupada was not not American and did not subscribe to many concepts of modern interpretations and when we interpret him from 'our' perspective we risk putting our words in his purports, a very very dangerous path may I add."

    Exactly. Why do you defend annotation, then?
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008
     
    First of all annotations exist already. I defend what already exists. Secondly because if there is no proper or academic or balanced annotations, then there is a freedom to provide offensive 'annotations on the blogs and lectures' to such misunderstood statements.
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      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    you want to stop offences by annotating the books? Very kind of you.
    Proper academic annotations? What exactly is that, but the pride with a boastful name?
    I am sure Srila Prabhupada is not very pleased with these clever attempts to tamper his writtings. Write your own comment and publish it. Stand on your own for that, not trying to pass it as SP desire. It is NOT.
    Kick the academics in the face!!!
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008 edited
     
    I actually think Prabhupada is displeased MAINLY due to devotees fighting with the authorities who represent him. I find the whole attitude of the argument on the both sides shows
    1) Weakness of GBC
    2) Ignorance of the mass of devotees (annotations already exist)
    3) Seriousness of the split between different views on Prabhupada in ISKCON - one is he being empowered human devotee and other him accepted to be faultless divine avatara (out of which the second one scares me and smells like Gargamuni/Brahmananda reasons for being kicked out of ISKCON)
    4) Lack of a desire on the part of general devotees to address the issues of controversial statements
    5) General cultish attitude (instead of 'kicking academics in the face', talk to devotee academics...)
    6) Lack of trust to 'anyone' in the position to represent Prabhupada (thus signaling serious problem in itself in terms of preachin

    Do you agree that the above is evident from the debate?
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      CommentAuthorVEDA
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008
     
    "Srila Prabhupada was happy to hear about the preaching to the academics. He told Ambarisa it was important work. He asked to be kept informed on the development of the restaurant and requested that he try to get his books recognized by the academic circles in Boston." (A Transcendental Diary 2-1, Melbourne, April 21st 1976)
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      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2008 edited
     
    VEDA:"Srila Prabhupada was happy to hear about the preaching to the academics. He told Ambarisa it was important work. He asked to be kept informed on the development of the restaurant and requested that he try to get his books recognized by the academic circles in Boston." (A Transcendental Diary 2-1, Melbourne, April 21st 1976)
    Exactly. But the general mass of devotees still maintain an different 'cultish' attitude - again a misinterpretation of Prabhupadas words.
  18.  
    In the matters of understanding women's psychology Srila Prabhupada often followed the theories of his psychology College Professor, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, very often quoting him in public. Uruquhart was actually British.

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