Not signed in (To ask a question, Sign In)

Pariprashnena (to inquire submissively). Questions & Answers resource for all devotees.

Welcome Guest!
Want to take part in these discussions? If you have an account, sign in now.
If you don't have an account, apply for one now.
    •  
      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2008 edited
     
    A long time ago I heard a lecture by Suhotra Swami where he mentioned how boring and tiring is the "how did the jiva fall down" issue. He said that he was very happy when he read that Krishna was asked this question too and he said he was tired of it and didnt reply.

    Anyone knows where is this from?
    •  
      CommentAuthorabhiram
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2008
     
    please help.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVEDA
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2008
     
    No idea, sorry.
  1.  
    quite likely it is just another Iskcon fairy tale
    •  
      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2008 edited
     
    It could be useful to note that in Jan 1995 Suhotra maharaja wrote:


    Srila Prabhupada stated in 1972, "As soon as we try to become the Lord,
    immediately we are covered by Maya. Formerly we were with Krsna
    in His lila or sport."

    The vision of those who would become Krsna is instantly covered by Maya.
    Even when the Lord is directly before their eyes, they cannot see
    Him as the loving devotees do. They see Him as a competitor, and they
    see His spiritual opulence as objects of their own enjoyment. Therefore
    they must leave the spiritual world, which is the abode of the Lord's
    devotees, and enter the abode of Maya, the abode of His enemies.

    Evidence: on Feb. 19, 1976, a disciple asked Srila Prabhupada, "In Krsna
    Book it says there were some color fighting in Dvaraka. They were
    throwing color. And some men became lusty seeing the women. So is ...
    will that be the first part of their falldown, to be in Vaikuntha and
    think of personal lust with Krsna's associates?" Prabhupada answered,
    "Yes."

    Of course this is a controversial topic. As a result of hearing from
    Vaisnavas outside of ISKCON, some devotees have developed the opinion
    that when Srila Prabhupada said these things, he did not really mean
    them. They have heard that the jiva fell from the Brahmajyoti, or
    from Mahavisnu, or that he was always in the material world. There
    is evidence from the sastra supporting each of these points of
    view.

    I have already replied to the argument that Prabhupada's statements
    were provisional, only for Westerners etc. Regarding sastric
    statements that seem to contradict that the jiva originates with
    Krsna, Srimad Bhagavatam states, vadanti tat tattva vidas tattvam yaj
    jnanam advayam brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate, that
    various authorities in various Vedic writings have described the
    non-dual Absolute Truth as Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan. These
    three different aspects of the Absolute Truth are thus admitted,
    and each includes the jiva -- either as the spark floating in effulgence;
    the emanation from the first manifestation of Paramatma, Mahavisnu;
    or as the servant of the Personality of Godhead. Some devotees think
    the right way to solve to the controversy surrounding the jiva's fall is
    to say that all three features are advayam (nondifferent), so whether one
    says the jiva fell from Brahman or Krsna-lila is really not important.

    But, of the three aspects of the Absolute Truth, only one is said to
    include the other two. The other two are partial. So it follows that
    scenarios of the jiva originating in Brahman or Paramatma are only
    partial explanations of his origin.
  2.  
    I wonder why this should be something to worry about in the first place. This question is simply irrelevant to my sadhana. When I have to answer this I ask: Are you able understand purnam adah purnam idam? Or aham brahmasmi? Once you are, you can understand falldown/no-falldown stuff.

    Imagine, a jiva does fall from Vaikuntha. How will this inspire you to chant?
  3.  
    Srila Prabhupada instructs us not to worry how we got here but to work on getting out.
    • CommentAuthordeena
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008
     
    Hari Bhakta dasa:Srila Prabhupada instructs us not to worry how we got here but to work on getting out.
    It appears the authorities worry about this issue considerably and consider this issue very relevant, despite Prabhupada's instructions to not worry about it. For example, if a devotee uses sastra to show an opposite conclusion to the 'approved' conclusion, they are defamed, labelled unfaithful to Prabhupada and Iskcon, and resolutions are made officially banning them from speaking and participating in Iskcon until they can redeem their 'good standing.' Why have the authorities made such a big deal about an issue Prabhupada instructed us not to worry about?
    •  
      CommentAuthormishra
    • CommentTimeJun 24th 2008 edited
     
    all that nonsense comes from the same place: GBC body identifying themselves as absolute authority, and on the other hand trying to emulate a corporation
    but the fault is not on them but on the people that applauds and supports any step towards corporate structure and blind following. And the silence of innumerable others bound by self interests, including religious salvation bigotry, various privileges and perks, wages and plain and dumb yesmenry.
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
 
Powered By ISKCON Tech