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Pariprashnena (to inquire submissively). Questions & Answers resource for all devotees.

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    • CommentAuthordave
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008
     
    Question came up in class today. If a devotee is offered one of the 5 types (4 types, for a devotee) of liberation, and goes to Vaikunta planets, what form does he take? The question arises as we understand you have a eternal spiritual form in relationship with Krishna, and if you're in Vaikuntha planets instead, is it that you take another form?

    Also someone quoted that in the second canto it is stated, that a resident of the Vaikuntha planets, if they caught a glimpse of Krishna, they could be prompted to Krishnaloka. So then how does that work, if say, they have a Narayana form.

    Looking for sastric evidence :) Thanks
    •  
      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008 edited
     
    Narayana form of the residents of vaikuntha will not be the final form of someone who will develop a higher rasa and be promoted to Goloka. One can have both forms if both rasas of dasya and one of Goloka rasas. In fact one may come down from Vaikuntha to take part in the pastimes of Gokula to qualify for that transformation and follow the footsteps of the residents of Vrindavana..

    The logic used by Sanatana Goswami is (roughly) Vaikuntha-Dwaraka-Vraja

    ayati jayati vṛndāraṇyam etan murāreḥ
    priya-tamam ati-sādhu-svānta-vaikuṇṭha-vāsāt
    ramayati sa sadā gāḥ pālayan yatra gopīḥ
    svarita-madhura-veṇur vardhayan prema rāse

    All glories, all glories to this place where we are living, Lord Murāri’s Vṛndāvana forest! He prefers residing here to residing in Vaikuṇṭha or in the hearts of elevated saints. In Vṛndāvana, while always tending His cows, He gives pleasure to the gopīs, whose love for Him in the mood of the rāsa dance He increases by sweetly playing His flute

    tatra ye sac-cid-ānanda-
    dehāḥ parama-vaibhavam
    samprāptaṁ sac-cid-ānandaṁ
    hari-sārṣṭiṁ ca nābhajan

    In Vaikuṇṭha the residents have sac-cid-ānanda bodies and may avail themselves of the supreme opulence of Lord Hari. They have sac-cid-ānanda powers, equal to His. But the residents of Vaikuṇṭha do not like to accept such equality with the Lord.

    dehendriyāsu-hīnānāṁ/ vaikuṇṭha-pura-vāsinām: “The bodies of the inhabitants of Vaikuṇṭha are completely spiritual, having nothing to do with the material body, senses, or life air.” (Bhāgavatam 7.1.35)

    muktān upahasantīva
    vaikuṇṭhe satataṁ prabhum
    bhajantaḥ pakṣi-vṛkṣādi-
    rūpair vividha-sevayā

    Always worshiping the Lord in Vaikuṇṭha, they seem amused by those who are merely liberated. The Vaikuṇṭha-vāsīs are always busy in various services, for which they even take on forms like those of birds and trees.

    That many kinds of animals and plants live in Vaikuṇṭha is confirmed by the description of SB (3.15.18–19)

    kṛṣṇa-bhakti-sudhā-pānād
    deha-daihika-vismṛteḥ
    teṣāṁ bhautika-dehe ’pi
    sac-cid-ānanda-rūpatā

    Having drunk the nectar of devotion to Kṛṣṇa, those devotees forget their material bodies and relationships. Thus even while living in material bodies, they assume the transcendental nature of eternity, knowledge, and bliss.

    paraṁ bhagavatā sākaṁ
    sākṣāt krīḍā-paramparāḥ
    sadānubhavituṁ tair hi
    vaikuṇṭho ’pekṣyate kvacit

    But in Vaikuṇṭha devotees always relish ongoing pleasure pastimes in the very company of the Lord. Therefore devotees sometimes prefer to live there.

    yeṣāṁ darśana-sambhāṣā-
    sparśānugamanāsanaiḥ
    bhojanodvāha-śayanais
    tathānyair daihikair dṛḍhaiḥ

    duśchedaiḥ prema-sambandhair
    ātma-sambandhato ’dhikaiḥ
    baddhaḥ svargāpavargecchāṁ
    chittvā bhaktiṁ vivardhayan

    kṛṣṇo vismṛta-vaikuṇṭho
    vilāsaiḥ svair anu-kṣaṇam
    navaṁ navam anirvācyaṁ
    vitanoti sukhaṁ mahat

    Kṛṣṇa has now forgotten Vaikuṇṭha, for He is bound by intense, unbreakable loving exchanges with these Yadus. He sees the Yadus, touches them, talks with them, sits with them. He eats and sleeps with them, follows them when they walk, takes part in their marriage ceremonies, and shares in their other activities of embodied life. These relations are more tangible than the yogīs’ union with Him in meditation. Thus, by His pastimes Kṛṣṇa spreads among the Yadus infinite pleasure, ever fresh and indescribable, destroying any desire they might have for heaven or liberation, and increasing more and more their devotion to Him.
    • CommentAuthordave
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008 edited
     
    "All of the miseries we experience in the material world arise from the body, but one who leaves this body thinking of Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, at once attains a sac-cid-ānanda body."
    BG Intro. Someone just tried to present to me that the Spiritual body is different from the Spiritual spark, I rejected, but feel free to defeat this too.
    •  
      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008
     
    A devotee’s material body may literally transform into a spiritual one, like the body of Dhruva Mahārāja just before his ascent to Vaikuṇṭha. As described by Maitreya Ṛṣi:

    parītyābhyarcya dhiṣṇyāgryaṁ
    pārṣadāv abhivandya ca
    iyeṣa tad adhiṣṭhātuṁ
    bibhrad rūpaṁ hiraṇmayam

    “Before getting aboard the Vaikuṇṭha airplane, Dhruva Mahārāja worshiped and circumambulated it, and also offered obeisances to the associates of Viṣṇu. In the meantime he became as brilliant and illuminating as molten gold. He was thus completely prepared to board the transcendental plane.” (S Bhag 4.12.29)
    Commenting on this verse, Śrīla Śrīdhara Svāmī explains hiraṇmayam as meaning “full of effulgence.” In other words, Dhruva Mahārāja obtained a new body made of pure spiritual energy.
    • CommentAuthordave
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008
     
    So based one what you've written, then the spiritual body is a body made out of a spiritual nature, but is different from the spiritual spark (Spirit Soul)?
    •  
      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2008 edited
     
    Not exactly 'different' more like developed or purified. It is however connected to the fact that even if you are completely in ignorance you can get a special arrangement to get the touch of lotus feet of Krsna, but if without such special mercy, even if in the highest position of the spiritual world (with fully developed spiritual body of Sri) you may not get this opportunity. So be opportunistic.

    (SB 10.16.36-7)

    "'O Lord, we do not know how the serpent Kāliya attained such an opportunity to be touched by the dust of Your lotus feet. Even the goddess of fortune, for this end, performed austerities for centuries, giving up all other desires and observing austere vows. Indeed, we do not know how the serpent Kāliya got such an opportunity.'

    Those who have attained the dust of Your lotus feet never hanker for the kingship of heaven, limitless sovereignty, the position of Brahmā or rulership over the earth. They are not interested even in the perfections of yoga or in liberation itself.
    ---

    This is the basis of devotees NOT desiring liberation, not at all, why would you want it if you do not get association with Krishna? Generally devotees of Krishna are not liberated members of Vaikuntha, even if some of the residents of Vaikuntha did take part in rasa lila as Srutis for example CC Madhya 8.225

    That leads you to read puport in CC Madhya 8.229 for some further guidance.

    The Laksmi dilemma of SB 10.16.36 is answered in CC Madhya 8.231

    You should understand that 'spiritual form' is very much related with emotion (rasa) rather then with some preconceived shape as you can see with the example of Shrutis, who have forms in Vaikuntha but entered as gopis in the rasa dance (unlike Sri herself)
    •  
      CommentAuthorccd
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2008
     
    Taittiriya Upanisad 2.7 explains:
    raso vai sah
    rasam hy evayam labdhanandi bhavati
    ko hy evanyat kah pranyat
    yad esa akasa anando na syat
    esa hy esanandayati
    The supreme truth is rasa. The jiva becomes blissful on attaining this rasa. Who would work with the body and prana if this blissful form did not exist? He gives bliss to all.
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