When the Lord descends, He gives His supreme arguments. They're recorded in sastra. Vedanta sutra is a 'log' from a debate (based on Upanisads) against various astika and nastika views. Vaisnavas therefore also argue(d) against opposing views. Madhvacarya and his followers were most prominent in the historical debate against advaitavada. This history is described in the book Vaisnava Vijaya by B.P. Kesava Maharaja, Godbrother of Srila Prabhupada.

Re your agnostic argument, the uncertainty can be simply called ignorance, avidya. Ignorance is the starting point of atheism and agnosticism. Then one can decide if one stops there (being stubborn) or has doubts about it. If one doubts that ignorance (Maya) is all-in-all, one starts a spiritual quest. It may take many lifetimes. But at one point one gets personal experience with trancendent reality (divya pratyaksa) and all doubts and materialism are dispelled.

"The only cure for non-belief is the mystical experience." - Thomas Merton

Dear Baker,

Thank you for your inquiry.

We are considered to have attained to human life when we ask the questions: Who am i? What is the purpose of my life? Why do i have to die? Why am i destined to lose everything i hold dear? Why am i forced to suffer, become diseased, and grow old--even though i don't want to?

These are the real questions and problems of life, and they must be solved whilst in the human body; the bodies of lower creatures like dogs, birds, fish, etc. do not have the intelligence to understand these problems of life, they are simply concerned with eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Unfortunately modern man is simply ameliorating these animalistic concerns, which takes up all his valuable time, thus strong words like 'polished animals' are used to describe them.

Now, some people may not even realize that these problems are serious concerns or they say that these problems cannot be solved, so they have decided not to make any endeavor to solve them, some claim these problems are the 'beauty' of life and some encourage others to accept all these miseries and problems as inevitable, many ridicule people who are attempting to find a solution or who follow Acaryas like His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, who advance a solution, provide all training and facilities, plus show by example the benefits of the endeavor. Thus they cheat others into accepting their faith-for faith it is, albeit misguided. According to the shastra, they have not yet attained human birth since they are not utilizing the facility offered by human birth--to solve these problems. The strong wording 'two-legged animal' is used for them.

What is the difference between a person who accepts good instruction and one who will not? The one who accepts is simple. He hears that there are problems of life and he also hears that they can be solved. Because he is simple he wants to learn how.

Good luck to you

ccd:

Why would we want to refute any arguments?

Myself, I refuse to settle for being confused. ;)

If you believe in agnostic arguments it is your choice. If you believe in the arguments of Sri Krishna in Bhagavad Gita it is a better choice. But we do not force our views on you, but suggest you first read Gita in full and then come back. http://www.asitis.com

Reading the BG, questions have come up in my mind ...

A philosopher likes to think about things. But seeing or experiencing is a different process. Imho, religion is not only philosophy but experiencing as well. It is possible to borrow things but experiences can not be borrowed. For example, one can borrow a hammer from someone but can not borrow his love experience.

Seeing or experiencing is a byproduct of devotional service. I would recommend engaging in devotional service along with thinking. Especially sravnam and kirtanam are highly recommended along with philosophising things. Experiences provide robustness to beliefs.

One major difference between living things and dead matter is that live things have VALUES, ie. they favor and appreciate everything which enhances their life! For example, we can observe that even a tree existing on the edge of a cliff will do everything in its power to hold on there as long as possible. Similarly, a squirrel collects food to ensure its survival over the scarce winter months. Both are determined to continue to enjoy life, to fulfill their potential, to go on, and enjoy. For the tree, the earth and the rain and the sun are it's Greatest Good. For the squirrel, good is food and warmth and continuation. Thus, the principle of preference and values is clearly established by the actual behaviors of all living things. There is a natural and observable valuation of good and bad. The living things, from microbes to humans, consistently display these inherent values. Life is not at all random, unlike molecules, but is even co-synchronous in purpose, harmonized, and this is so far fully observable in all of biology, at least on this planet, anyway! There is NO example of opposition to this universal principle of life that we have observed so far on earth.
Thus, we can see in the world around us daily, that there is a natural tendency toward values, inherent at a "root" level. We can also look at matter. It is less organized, and less variable, tends to homeostasis such that variety is minimized in a system, just like cold and hot mix to form lukewarm. Living things, on the other hand, have highly organized and energy producing and using structures, with complex purposive behavior patterns. The human inner ear is an example of a highly organized structure with very specific coding and tuning, and purpose and use. It can sense microseconds and micro pressures. It uses more energy to function than the other organs do, having a very high metabolic rate, but all of which organs are still far more information rich than non-living matter, and require energy, produce byproducts, etc. So there is a clear and observable difference between the essential character of life and dead matter. Life has values, is highly organized, is self aware in some degrees.

Srila Prabhupada liked to argue that life only comes from life, that no scientist can take dead chemicals and put them together and produce a living being. Thus, we can go back far enough, following the historical string of lifeforms, and we find that the original Father is the Source of Life! We know Him as Sri Krsna! Prabhupada would ask the atheistic persons for even one example of life coming from dead chemicals. Rarely, an educated person I meet speaks of strings of peptides or reproducing modular cells, made in biolabs, which display some characteristics of life. Then I say, very good, your maybe / maybe not evidence is .001 percent of all observable life, as opposed to the observable 99.999 per cent, all of whom came from another living being! They are defeated statistically, and if at all honest, must then admit that they may have been misdirected by a bias in science, and are presenting a blind faith in science, whereas the devotee is presenting Observable Truths in this regards.
So, the living universe requires organized information, and observably values or prefers it to uniformity. The nature is as according to the qualities of the Ultimate Source, which or who must also value variety, as opposed to a void or uniformity, because the richest creations, the living things, are from the source, and we are ourselves entirely value driven. As below, so above. It is very simple, just like a gold ring has all the qualities of pure gold, but it is but a small chip off the vein in the mine.
All creatures desire; desire good variety, desire life, and potential fulfillment. We can understand then, if our "as above, so below" observational principle stands, that the source and Principle of Life, from which all life is derived, also loves being alive, indeed IS LIFE, and wishes to go on! If we have it, it is because the whole Universe has us within it. We must accept what we can observe. If science says we are chemicals, we cannot observe that in reality, so we should reject speculative atheistic science. If science says the purpose is not clear, we can actually see daily and without exceptions, the universal tendencies of the components.
The sum source cannot be less than the derivatives, i.e., you can't get out more than what is there to begin with! We have values because they are inherent in the universe. This means that, as all we intelligent living things display values, and we are all but a small part of a much larger and observable universe, that the Supreme Source of the Living Universe contains the fullest set of values, is Intelligent, with a natural tendency to individual identity and values, which tendencies we have universally inherited! This Living Principle will be perfectly and highly organized, information rich, fullest in attractivity, most fulfilling and hence valued as "beauteous" or all-attractive = the definition of Lord Sri Krsna!! All glories to Sri Krsna, the All-attractive Living Force and Precedent Setter, Supreme Personality of Godhead!