Philosophy: What's it supposed to feel like having a guru take your karma?

Srila Jiva Gosvami gives a definition of Diksa in Bhakti-sandarbha

divyaḿ jñānaḿ yato dadyāt kuryāt pāpasya sańkṣayam
tasmāt dīkṣeti sā proktā deśikais tattva-kovidaiḥ

"Dikṣa is the process by which one can awaken his transcendental knowledge and vanquish all reactions caused by sinful activity. A person expert in the study of the revealed scriptures knows this process as dikṣa."

The Bhakti-sandarbha gives the following quotation from the Tattva-sāgara:

yathā kāñcanatāḿ yāti kāḿsyaḿ rasa-vidhānataḥ
tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaḿ jāyate nṛṇām

"'By chemical manipulation, bell metal is turned into gold when touched by mercury; similarly, when a person is properly initiated, he can acquire the qualities of a brāhmaṇa.'"

According to Jiva Gosvami, karmas or reactions of sinful activities are vanquished because of awakening of transcendental knowledge.Stress is given on transcendental knowledge and the qualities, there is no mention of any such thing that Chitragupta transfers one's sinful activities into his or her Guru's account at the time of diksha. Maybe I am wrong but I have not seen any such statement yet.

> there is no mention of any such thing that Chitragupta transfers one's sinful activities into his or her Guru's account at the time of diksha. Maybe I am wrong but I have not seen any such statement yet.

rAjNi cAmAtyajA doSAH
patnI-pApaM sva-bhartari
tathA ZiSyArjitaM pApaM
guruH prApnoti niZcitam

"The faults of a counselor fall on his king, and the sins of a wife fall on her husband. In the same way a spiritual master attains the sins of his disciple. That is certain." HBV 1.77, quote from SAra SaNgraha (continued from 1.76)

dīkṣā-kāle bhakta kare ātma-samarpaṇa
sei-kāle kṛṣṇa tāre kare ātma-sama

“At the time of initiation, when a devotee fully surrenders unto the service of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa accepts him to be as good as Himself.

sei deha kare tāra cid-ānanda-maya
aprākṛta-dehe tāṅra caraṇa bhajaya

“When the devotee’s body is thus transformed into spiritual existence, the devotee, in that transcendental body, renders service to the lotus feet of the Lord.

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura comments on these CC verses in his Anubhāṣya commentary: “At the time of initiation, the devotee gives up material conceptions and starts to think in terms of sambandha-jñāna or his eternal relationship with Krishna and His family. As soon as he has this supramundane or spiritual knowledge, he becomes eligible to serve the Lord in a similarly spiritual identity. As soon as the surrendered devotee is free from the shelter of Maya, Krishna adopts him and makes him His own. At this stage, the devotee’s delusion as enjoyer of material pleasures dissipates, and his real self merges with his new identity an eternal servant of Krishna. The devotee attains his spiritual body (sac-cid-ānanda-svarūpa) and his eternal service to Krishna, serving Him in his own transcendental form. The pure devotee’s ecstatic service is an elevated stage of devotion that is often misinterpreted and misunderstood by those unacquainted with the science of devotion. For this kind of aparadha one is deprived of the shelter of a Vaishnava guru.”
(Anubhāṣya, CC, Antya 4.193)

VEDA:> This actually refers to the sins AFTER initiation. Where is it stated? Thanks in advance.

This verse refers to the shared karma of those who are bound by a relationship of responsibility - the king has partial responsibility for the sins of his counselors or ministers (as well as his subjects) because king is in charge of these subjects. The same relationship applies to husband and wife, as well as guru and his disciples. Power and authority always means responsibility. A guru can not escape responsibility for the actions of his disciples.

That is one of the reasons why taking on disciples is not encouraged, especially taking a lot of disciples who are deeply conditioned.

VEDA:As per Vs 4.1.13-15 Vidya burns all current and stored karma with exception of manifested one (prarabdha) so there's no need for the guru to take any reactions of the disciple who attained Vidya (actual diksa). So it seems to me that taking reactions by the guru refers to the time of a formal acceptance of the guru, before manifestation of Vidya.

Because the verse in question appears in HBV it must be seen as applicable to Vaishnava gurus as well. Most people attain Vidya (which burns their stored up karma) very gradually, so there is plenty of time for them to do all kinds of nonsense after initiation. We have all seen it happen right before our eyes. With authority always comes responsibility.

Pandu das:Is there anything that happens at first initiation?

First initiation (hari nama initiation) is a somewhat peculiar case... It was introduced first by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta to the GV tradition, and consisted of receiving japa mala and a spiritual name. Prior to that initiation a prospective disciple would not chant on beads. This is the system still followed in most Gaudiya Matha institutions. Initially Srila Prabhupada also followed that system (read about the first two initiations in Lilamrita) but later changed it and devotees started chanting on the beads prior to initiation as a condition to be initiated. -------------- What happens at the time of first initiation mostly depends on the individual. I did feel very much purified and enthused to carry on with the process.