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When is someone too slow?
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At what point do devotees decide that someone is just too slow to grasp the philosophy and practice of Krishna consciousness, and that therefore they should give up on that person? Is there an official guideline?
Is there a time frame expectation within which a person new to the philosophy and practice is expected to have full conviction in Krishna and ISKCON, and that if they don't they should be given up on, written off?
I've heard some devotees say "Everyone at their own pace". But I have also witnessed judgments like "You're not getting it, perhaps you should go elsewhere".
So how is this regulated? -
No. It completely depends on a devotee how much time he'll dedicate to someone. If he can't answer anymore, he should ideally refer the person to someone else ('elsewhere') who can teach more. Therefore everyone should keep on looking for proper siksa guru/s the whole life and at the same time one should do active service since it gives spiritual intelligence necessary to grasp the philosophy of KC. Practice is best learned by practice, that's a common thing known even from our material life experience.
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I think the answer to this question is dependent on the individual expertise and tolerance level of the TP and local devotees to engage that person.
I haven't seen any official guidelines. From what I have heard of the 'good old days,' you were in maya if you didn't choose a guru after 6 months. I think it was called the "eternal bhakta syndrome." Then again Prabhupdaa did also say (I'm paraphrasing but it is available on Folio): 'Easy come means easy to leave. Harder to come means harder to leave.'
In terms of a time frame of how long it is expected that one should practice with full conviction: bahunam janmanam ante - it takes many lives .....jnanavan mam prpadyante vasudevam sarvam iti - to have full conviction that Krishna is all in all....sa mahatmah su durlabhah - such a person is very rare. (BG 7.19) -
deena:I haven't seen any official guidelines. From what I have heard of the 'good old days,' you were in maya if you didn't choose a guru after 6 months. I think it was called the "eternal bhakta syndrome."
ISKCON Law 6.4.8.1.3, “Standards of Guru Worship in
ISKCON,”
> ISKCON devotees shall instruct new members to take shelter of Srila
Prabhupada and to receive guidance, training and assistance from those who are
practically and directly instructing them in Krishna consciousness. ISKCON
members shall choose when and from whom they wish to request initiation. They
must focus their attention on Srila Prabhupada as the Founder-Acarya and as
their preeminent siksa guru. After having established a solid relationship
with His Divine Grace's vani, and after a minimum of six months of strict
sadhana, they may accept an authorized ISKCON devotee as a prospective diksa
guru, and after a subsequent minimum of six months, accept vaisnava diksa from
him or her. It should be understood that the purpose of siksa and diksa within
ISKCON is to strengthen the devotee’s relationship with Srila Prabhupada in
terms of fidelity, attachment, and affection. -
in other words previous words:
ISKCON members shall not compel or coerce new members to accept any particular siksa
or diksa guru or to take diksa initiation at any particular point in time.
are not the law anymore (2009), IT IS a service to Prabhupada to encourage siksa and diksa in ISKCON. -
I haven't seen any official guidelines. From what I have heard of the 'good old days,' you were in maya if you didn't choose a guru after 6 months. I think it was called the "eternal bhakta syndrome."deena:
After six months of what exactly?[br]
[br]After six months of living at the temple; or after six months of speaking with a devotee or opening a KC book and reading a bit for the first time?[br] -
[quote][cite] Baker:[/cite][quote] br]After six months of living at the temple; or after six months of speaking with a devotee or opening a KC book and reading a bit for the first time?[br][/quote]
I always assumed it was living at the temple. But the ISKCON law above is a bit more accomodating, only specifiying 'a minimum of six months of strict sadhana.' -
No. It completely depends on a devotee how much time he'll dedicate to someone. If he can't answer anymore, he should ideally refer the person to someone else ('elsewhere') who can teach more.VEDA:
Actually, when I was suggested to "go elsewhere", that devotee meant outside of ISKCON.[br]
[br]Therefore everyone should keep on looking for proper siksa guru/s the whole life and at the same time one should do active service since it gives spiritual intelligence necessary to grasp the philosophy of KC.
Can a person do active service at all without having full conviction of the philosophy of KC?[br]
[br]I've gotten the impression (but it may be wrong) that a person first has to have full conviction, and only then will they be fit to do any service; that as long as one doesn't have full conviction, one should refrain from trying to do any service as it will be merely ritualistic. -
I always assumed it was living at the temple. But the ISKCON law above is a bit more accomodating, only specifiying 'a minimum of six months of strict sadhana.'deena:
If a person doesn't keep strict sadhana (but aspires to), is there any point in visiting the temple or going to nama-hatta meetings? Are such visits and meetings reserved for those who have strict sadhana? -
> Actually, when I was suggested to "go elsewhere", that devotee meant outside of ISKCON.
That's not what SP wanted.
> Can a person do active service at all without having full conviction of the philosophy of KC?
Yes, even a child can do some service, like bringing a flower to the Deities.
> I've gotten the impression (but it may be wrong) that a person first has to have full conviction, and only then will they be fit to do any service; that as long as one doesn't have full conviction, one should refrain from trying to do any service as it will be merely ritualistic.
No, the full conviction comes from the realizations from service.
> If a person doesn't keep strict sadhana (but aspires to), is there any point in visiting the temple or going to nama-hatta meetings? Are such visits and meetings reserved for those who have strict sadhana?
The sanga should be an inspiration toward strict sadhana. -
Actually, when I was suggested to "go elsewhere", that devotee meant outside of ISKCON.Baker:
That is not a bad personal advice but a rather bad move on behalf of Iskcon devotees. Why should they lose people who are willing to do some service? It makes no sense.
Can a person do active service at all without having full conviction of the philosophy of KC?Baker:
Of course! This is exactly what Prabhupada was encouraging: do some service FIRST. Conviction will come later on it's own.
I never gave up on anybody who was willing to do some service, unless they were plum crazy (mentally ill) and disrupted the temple activities. And I always discouraged people from taking initiation unless they were 100% sure they wanted to take it from a particular guru. Taking it slow in that area is a very good policy. I have seen far too many devotees who later regretted their hasty choices. -
[quote][cite] Baker:[/cite] If a person doesn't keep strict sadhana (but aspires to), is there any point in visiting the temple or going to nama-hatta meetings? Are such visits and meetings reserved for those who have strict sadhana?[/quote]
Such temple visits and nama-hatta meetings are for those with strict sadhana, those without strict sadhana, those with no sadhana, and even those who don't know they should have sadhana. -
Someone is slow when they're not from New York.
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Take prasadam, dance and chant Hare Krishna
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