Philosophy: [Closed] Radhanatha Swami and Narayana Maharaja?

Why place the blame for reinitiation on the guru? Why place the blame on anybody? When someone wants to take a formal initiation from another guru it is their business alone. Our tradition has become ridicoulously guru-centric.

Will somebody please put a muzzle on this idiot!

SGD I don't hate you, "Hongi" ... you will know what that means...and accept my humble obeisances.

Nothing delights me more than when I see the Maori Haka its ancient tradition at its best. Before the west started dominating everything.

To be honest your dogmatic ways and one eyed Iskcon Institution mindedness drives me up that wall, but I still don't hate you. I just see you as a person that needs a fuller more richer experience of KC than what is offerered within a defensive institution that has lost its way.

Actually we are on the same team as you. I respect that you are from an ancient Maori clan and I really respect that you are sharing that with us.
At worst see me not as a rival clan but as cousin clans the same as your own, but with new respectful uncles that we have discovered. Yes we honour and respect the new uncles for it would be offensive to do otherwise no? but we shall never stop worshiping the head of our internal clan Srila Prabhupada before we worship anyone else...at least that is how I feel...Any kirtan I sing or prayer I make, it always begins with Srila Prabupada's.

This movement some say started with Sriman Mahaprabhu others say Krishna, of course Srila Prabhupada is the pre-eminent Gaudia Vaisnava devotee of Mahaprabhu of this Yuga, that is written into history, and will always be so, and he is our saviour, I have met not one devotee that would argue this.

Srila Prabhupada was like the shining sun and it pains me to this day that I was so sinful and so unfortunate not to take his darshan, that is my misfortune. The Srila Prabhupada disciples are so fortunate for they had his darshan. But as the sun goes down and darkness prevails we are all put to the test, during the darkness many bad things have happend which has tested everyones faith.

We love Srila Prabhupada and want nothing more than to see him glorified more than anyone, after all he is our saviour. No one came to the west to save us but he did. I think it is great that your whole family are devotees and it honours you the head of the family, that your family follows you and Srila Prabhpada.

As you look to defend the walls of Iskcon which I perfectly understand, myself and I know others here see Krishna Consciousness to be very broad and encompass many devotees of Sriman Mahaprabhu not only within the institution called Iskcon. It is a spiritual family not some club that a select few can sell tickets to attend.

The fact is we are not adversaries or in battle against each other, we are on the same team its just a matter of realizing it.

Hare Krishna SGD all glories to Srila Prabhupada.

sri_govinda_das:Sorry Kula- pavanna we are iskconites.....life after life we will follow srila Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada and his preaching mission and flavour....not some pretender who attempts to twist our guru's legacy and then trys to usurp his position........

This is the way you see it, but others see it differently, and it is their choice. If I were to chose between NM and Radhanatha M. for example, I would choose NM without a moment's hesitation. All those 'guru wars' only discourage new people from taking up Mahaprabhu's mission seriously. From all of the 700 verses in Gita only a handfull speak about the guru - less than 1% - the rest is about Krsna and the process of reaching Him. But in Iskcon it is almost the other way - it is all about guru. No wonder so many people see us as a cult.

One more time sonny boy. The name Syamarani is a nickname that Narayana Maharaja calls her and out of her love and respect for her siksa guru she goes by both names. She was never never never never (you do know the meaning of the word never?) NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER ... NOT EVER NOT EVER NOT EVER .... DIDN"T HAPPEN, NEVER HAPPENED, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO ... NEVER REINITIATED!!!!!!!

Learn how to read and listen you fucking idiot!!!!!

I don't know why I even waste my time because you are such a fucking fucking fucking ignoramus with shit for brains .... She was never re-initiated so shut the fuck up you fucking fucking idiot. God damn you. What is your major malfunction? You are a fucking retard. A retard. You are retarded. Go get some help. I am sixty four years old and in all my years and travels and all the thousands and thousands of people I have met and known you are the biggest fucking idiot I have ever come across. Congratulations! You win the prize! No more. I will not respond to you anymore. My blood pressure can't handle it. You don't listen. You don't learn. You are stuck on STUPID. Fucking stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Portnoy for the nice explanation.

SGD, What is so obvious is that you do not read, comprehend or know how to use a forum environment, and it appears that you never read the thread from last point of where you posted. It seems any words of praise we spoke to you and respect of your Maori culture completely fell on deaf ears, and in return you ask people to submit to the train wreck that is Iskcon and vile creatures like Mr Charles Bacis.

You need to understand SGD the links you are reading here: http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/themes/Jadurani_REFUTATION_Syamarani.htm

Stated the following "[PADA: FOUNDER ACHARYA. First of all, notice the immediate disrespect to Srila Prabhupada. He gave "Jadurani" that name, and now she has been in essence "re-initiated" by Narayana Maharaja with a new name -- "Shyamarani."

But in Syamarani dd's own words found here: http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0006/WD25-6049.html

Is the following statement:

"My first question to Syamarani dd after her lecture, was, "did you get reinitiated ? ", to which she "strongly" replied that, "no, it is a great offense to take reinitiation".."My new name is like an affectionate nickname"."

Which is exactly what Portnoy said!

SGD this totally refutes both of what you and VEDA have offered up on this subject. Both of you are completely un-informed on this subject, neither of you do much in the way of investigation to get to the facts. Yet both of you stroke each others egos and pretend that you are some sort of authorities here.

Its sad to see that what was once a glorious Iskcon when Srila Prabhupada was here has sunk to such lows that it swamps its followers in so much mis-information and they happily swallow it all without question.

That's it -- as long as this guy continues posting here I've got to go .. and I would advise everyone else to also leave. Do you really want to be associated with this idiot? If you aren't embarrassed by the thought of an inquisitive seeker coming here for information and reading the crap this guy writes - as am I - then something's wrong. A few of us have tried to shut him up and slap him down but he's like one of those bozo punching bags that just keeps on popping back up with a stupid frozen smile on his painted face. This could be a serious and useful website but as long as a moron like him insists on taking over every meaningful thread -- contributing the most in quantity and the least in quality -- this place will remain a sewer of misinformation and misrepresentation. Somebody needs to take the responsibility. I don't know who runs this thing but you really ought to rethink your purpose.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Hare Krishna.

Thank you Sri Govinda for posting those shocking, unbelievably deluded quotes of NM! Like their guru, those who follow NM give lip-service to the glories of Srila Prabhupada, but we should not be fooled. They have their own opinion about the usefulness of what they are doing but because their opinion countradicts the instructions of the Acarya, it is useless.

Anyone who loves Srila Prabhupada or what he has given to us and reads those shocking quotes will clearly understand what NM's actual position is. Nobody has to expose him, he exposes himself. Those who think Srila Prabhupada is 'dead and gone', 'out of sight-out of mind', who are faithless and ungrateful, who do not understand our philosophy of absolute surrender and eternal service are the unfortunate ones, and NM is similarly unfortunate for having 'acquired' such persons. Really, it is a blessing for our movement that NM attracts those kind of persons out of our lives so we can focus fully on absolute surrender at the lotus feet of Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

Srila Prabhupada told us, "Don't be surprised at who goes, be surprised at who stays."

The Sri Guru Acarya's instruction: So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.” Srila Prabhupada.

The Sri Guru Acarya's vision and encouragement: "Their policy has been all along to suppress me and take credit for himself. Their proposal for cooperation is a myth. They haven’t done anything which is cooperative. You know in a recent article they managed to write in such a way that Madhava is doing the world movement and we are his subordinate. From the beginning that has been their mentality. So there is no possibility of cooperation with them. Rather you should avoid strictly meeting with them. They are not after preaching but material gain and reputation and adoration. Otherwise why they are non cooperating with me? So no cooperation is possible. Do not think or indulge in loose talks. Be careful always. Let us do the duty of propagation sincerely and seriously on our own principles. Krsna and Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura are our only hope and they and helping us." Srila Prabhupada.

The Sri Guru Acarya's deliberation: "The order of the spiritual master is the active principle in spiritual life. Anyone who disobeys the order of the spiritual master immediately becomes useless. Persons who strictly follow the orders of the spiritual master are useful in executing the will of the Supreme, whereas persons who deviate from the strict order of the spiritual master are useless.
Paddy is mixed with straw at first, and one must fan it to separate the paddy from the straw. This example given by Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami is very appropriate. In the case of the Gaudiya Matha members, one can apply a similar process. There are many disciples of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, but to judge who is actually his disciple, to divide the useful from the useless, one must measure the activities of such disciples in executing the will of the spiritual master." Srila Prabhupada
Hare Krishna.