Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:03:01 -0800 http://www.pariprashnena.com/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.1.4 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12985#Comment_12985 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12985#Comment_12985 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:05:50 -0800 sri_govinda_das So why Manasi -seva and Portnoy do you support Narayanna maharaja's stratagey of re-initiation of Prabhupada's disciples......have you Portnoy so little faith even in your guru?Our Srila AC Bhaktiuvedanta swami Prabhupupada was not a gaudiya math person....even he accepted he was an iskcon man birth after birth.
Narayana Maharaja Los Angeles, California - May 31, 2000: "Never. Srila Swami Maharaja has not instructed like this. Has he said that we should go to the atheists' university? ... Has Srila Swami Maharaja told anywhere that you should go to this bad university or that bad university? What will be the result? Narayana Maharaja December 3, 2001 India: "So many of those who claim to be disciples of Prabhupada neither have faith in him nor in nama-bhajana. Rather, they have faith in universities and mayavada professors. Did Prabhupada tell anyone to learn from mayavadi professors? How can we accept them as ISKCON devotees? They have no faith in ISKCON and ISKCON principles."
Such a comment by Narayanna maharaja shows his slipping in and out of reality!He has not come and submitted to the ISKCON GBC.....nor has he been initiated into the ISKCON line!....maybe he has according to your mood manasi-seva and potnoy accepted an iskcon guru......just by accepting another name but has not been properly initiated?Maybe his real name is.......]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12984#Comment_12984 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12984#Comment_12984 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:06:17 -0800 manasi_seva
It is very common in Bengal and India in general especially in the village areas that people of your own age and standing may use your name, but people who are younger or older than you will use a different name to address you and quite often it can be a unique name, a pet name or nick name.

SGD you are not being very clear and you have not put any detail forward (other than names) about any so called "re-initiations" of Srila Prabhupada disciples. Prabhupada disciples that take shelter of NM maybe awarded different names but that is a name based on their special relationship (shiksha) with NM. But that is not re-initiation or denying their eternal relationship with Srila Prabhupada. SGD NM is talking about the international society for Krishna Conciosness that started with Krishna and was continued by Sriman Mahaprabhu and all of his followers and most pre-eminently by Srila Prabhupada, he is not talking about the Institution, again you read but you don't comprehend.

Non Prabupada disciples that have for whatever reason rejected their Iskcon or other guru generally may take full initiation but that is simply considered initiation.

All I have seen so far in this forum is accusations and innuendos and zero evidence of any wrong doing by N.M. Not something I would use to start blaspheming a Gaudia Vaisnava in good standing.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/319/?Focus=12983#Comment_12983 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/319/?Focus=12983#Comment_12983 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:57:24 -0800 Haridas
Why is not wearing Shiva tilak outdated? It's the same as it ever was.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1067/?Focus=12982#Comment_12982 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1067/?Focus=12982#Comment_12982 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:55:57 -0800 maah!
Hare Krishna. i am not sure why BBT is doing it like that. i don't think other religious groups lowercase Lord Jesus or Prophet Muhammad in their scripture. Why should we lowercase Srila Prabhupada's reference? We would be correct to make Srila Prabhupada's reference capitilized both alone or combined with Sri Krishna.

Are they considering it mathetical, that Sri Krishna (1) plus Arjuna (0) makes zero? Mathematically, Srila Prabhupada said everything else is zero but if you put Sri Krishna in front, then you have that number, ie: 0 + 1 = 10, 00 + 1 = 100, etc.

The BBT way of preference makes it seem like combination of great devotees with the holy name of Sri Krishna makes the holy names of Sri Krishna as well as His eternal associates like Sri Arjunaji, as well and the external manifestations of His localized aspect of Sri Guru Paramattma like Srila Prabhupada, appear less significant. That is not Lord Krishna's mood, He runs after the dust of the lotus feet of His pure devotees to purify Himself and the world. Why not increase our appreciation of the significance of Sri Guru? "The lotus feet of our spiritual master are the only way by which we can attain pure devotional service. i bow to his lotus feet with great awe and reverence." "Without the grace of the spiritual master, no one can make any advancement."

So as a matter of personal preference and to solicit favor with the Supreme Lord and His dear, eternal associates, the act of refering to both of Them with capital letters suits some. The Lord, Who is never envious, tells Lord Shiva " One who claims to be My devotee is not My devotee, but one who claims to be the devotee of My devotee is My devotee." Srila Prabhupada also said, "Krishna is never alone."

Those who are anxious to appreciate Lord Krishna and wish to enter into Lord Krishna's samsara sing Sri Nagar Kirtan-Nadiya Godrume- by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur. "Sri Krishna is Father, Sri Krishna is Mother, Sri Krishna is Friend, Sri Krishna is Lord of my heart, Sri Krishna is everything. This is the essence of all dharma: jive doya, krsna-nam. Completely surrender unto the Holy Name of Sri Krishna and shower mercy on all the jivas, seeing them as Sri Krishna's. They are Sri Krishna's, yes. Fragmental part and parcel of Sri Krishna. Mamaivamso jiva-loke. They are Sri Krishna's. They are not there for your enjoyment, baba. That is Krishna samsara koro. Don't involve yourself in maya samsara. Completely involve yourself in Krishna samsara, guru samsara, guru eva samsara."]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1065/?Focus=12981#Comment_12981 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1065/?Focus=12981#Comment_12981 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:27:24 -0800 Hari Bhakta dasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12980#Comment_12980 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12980#Comment_12980 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:47:07 -0800 sri_govinda_das Actually both of you you are becoming half -expert at blaspheming and trying to degrade those whom do not share your materially motivated anti-Iskcon opinion.....Manasi seva and Portnoy .Now because you are unable to attack my humble devotional offerings,you attack my siksa guru....bhavannada das who has been serving his guru and thousands of devotees since the early seventies!Forty odd years!
Yes he did fall down ,through a homosexual relationship!....However he immediately followed the sastra and took shelter of his godbrothers in sydney ...Australia.After which he went to Sri mayapura dhama and has been serving ever since.My own ''life times of sins would infact derail anyones spiritual life'' in my opinion!So i personally have refused to be re-initiated,instead i took shelter of his godbrother his grace Tamala krishna goswami.
Why do anti-iskcon...Narayanna maharaja supporters such as Portnoy and manasi seva bring up this garbhage repeatedly?Because when they possess little of spiritual sukriti,penance ,austerity or realised knowledge they must resort to character assasination and sensationalism.And hence their attempts to smoke screen their spiritual frailties by attacking our present guru and proclaiming that only Narayanna maharaja is an uttama adhikari seems to them to satisfy their present nefarious needs.
Such guru-assasination is the intended strategy to hopefully destroy our faith in Srila Prabhupada's legacy.Which his Iskcon GBC represents......and by repeatedly attacking their weakened servants such as Bhavannada Prabhu,they hope you will take shelter of Narayanna maharaja as your saviour.
However they refuse to appreciate that Bhavannada prabhu has been very progressive personally .As a consequence he was naturally asked by Ambarisa das,to help him build Srila Prabhupada's spiritual city and the Transcendental temple of understanding and planetarium .Because of his personal training from srila Prabhupada and his expert management skills in the holy dharma he is now playing a important part and satisfying many of his godbrothers by his selfless service.However back to the present scenario.....why would we want to accept Narayanna maharaja as our saviour,when he usurps srila Prabhupada's position as the sole...... Founder Acharya of Iskcon by sneaky under-handed power plays!.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12979#Comment_12979 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12979#Comment_12979 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:39:04 -0800 sri_govinda_das Ever since jadurani devi dasi's re-initiation and reincarnation as the anti-iskcon ....shyamarani i was of the opinion that ''a certain rotteness had set in''..... as ''Plato was prone to comment when one is ambitious for ''position!
Now we have the sur-real situation of a direct Prabhupada disciple in the form of jadurani devi dasi submissively,conciously working with the anti-iskcon Narayanna maharaja!Now Narayanna maharaja is no longer the chaste follower of our Srila Prabhupada ....he openly wants his position and his society to boot!...this is further directly declared by himself personally ...... Narayana Maharaja Murwillumbah, Australia: Feb. 18, 2002 (eve): "Your Prabhupada, Srila Swami Maharaja, only changed the name into English. He is not the founder-acarya of that eternal ISKCON… I am ISKCON. I'm not different from ISKCON. I am 'Bhaktivedanta' [Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja]. Like father, like son. I am the real successor of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, and there is no other. You should know this very openly. I am Bhaktivedanta and he is Bhaktivedanta, but he received this name after I did. I'm senior to him in this regard… I'm Bhaktivedanta, and I'm also ISKCON. Don't think that I'm out of ISKCON.''....Now i am senior to him in this regard!....so much for our freind.Simply a wolf in sheeps clothing!....wearing a ''Jains mask''!]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12978#Comment_12978 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12978#Comment_12978 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:53:34 -0800 Kula-pavana http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12977#Comment_12977 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12977#Comment_12977 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:05:41 -0800 sri_govinda_das http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12976#Comment_12976 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12976#Comment_12976 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:43:14 -0800 VEDA
They refer to themselves as jiva-manas-buddhi-ahankara complex. This is the Western conditioning from Abrahamic traditions. However, I guess we could find also in the Bible some cases when people displeased the Lord and lost their buddhi.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1063/?Focus=12975#Comment_12975 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1063/?Focus=12975#Comment_12975 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:31:38 -0800 anonym satya kahena,—’āge vyāsa kariba varṇane’

Translation: Śrīla Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura has stated in many places the factual truth that in the future, Vyāsadeva will describe Lord Caitanya's pastimes elaborately. (CC Antya 20.87)

bhaviṣye ha pare cāpi drauṇir vyāso bhaviṣyati (Vishnu Purāṇa, Part 3, Chapter 3 Verse 21)

Translation: Aśvatthāma will be the next vyāsa]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12974#Comment_12974 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12974#Comment_12974 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:30:19 -0800 VEDA
borokrsnadasa, Prabhupada says in SB Intro: "Those who are followers of the Sankara cult are generally known as Vedantists. This does not, however, mean that Vedanta is a monopoly study of the Sankara-sampradaya. Vedanta is studied by all the bona fide sampradayas, but they have their own interpretations. But those in the Sankara-sampradaya are generally known to be ignorant of the knowledge of the Vedantist Vaishnavas. For this reason the Bhaktivedanta title was first offered to the author by the Vaishnavas."

"People are after so-called Vedantists, but they do not know Krsna, so-called Vedantist. But one who is actually Vedantist, he knows Krsna. Therefore sometimes ago some of these Vaisnavas, they gave me this title, Bhaktivedanta. Bhaktivedanta means ultimate understanding of Vedanta is bhakti, not to become impersonalist." (SB lecture 1.1.3, London, August 19, 1971)

"Recognizing Srila Prabhupada's philosophical learning and devotion, the Gaudiya Vaisnava Society honored him in 1947 with the title "Bhaktivedanta"." (Sri Namamrta)]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1061/?Focus=12973#Comment_12973 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1061/?Focus=12973#Comment_12973 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:30:16 -0800 Baker
One need not to be qualified to get advice or to follow the path of krsna consciousness. But if you become Krsna conscious, you will become qualified. So to be qualified is not the first condition, it is the end result.[/quote]

That hasn't been my experience. One of my first impressions at the nama-hatta was that I would need to be sure about all kinds of things before going there would make for a meaningful experience.[br]

[br]And to get on topic - the scientists seeking proofs about the historicity of the scriptures would likely experience similar quandaries as myself.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12972#Comment_12972 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12972#Comment_12972 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:07:08 -0800 Baker
But to leave it up to others is still OUR decision. In that sense, it is inescapable that we "trust ourselves", so it is actually redundant to say "I trust myself (as opposed to trusting others)".[br]

[br]Ideally, it seems to me the only issue is what the content of the decision is, the principles by which it was made (ie. it is a matter of intelligence); and the ascribing of ownership is just a shorthand for that - which can be confusing, though, and introduce issues of manipulation.[br]


[br][quote]Manu speaks about atmanas tusnih, self-satisfaction, as one of pramanas. I mentioned it here before.[/quote]

Yes, I remember.[br]

[br]Also, at the end of the Bhagavad-gita, Krishna tells Arjuna to do as he sees fit - which could be interpreted to mean "trust yourself". But this is only AFTER Arjuna is thoroughly instructed, by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, and has understood the matter. [br]
Whereas prior to that, Krishna only tells him several times what he should do, without noting it was up to him. Isn't this significant?[br]


[br][quote]In SB 11.7 Krsna speak about jiva as his own guru and introduces the story of avadhuta brahmana who learned from various gurus, living and non living representations of guru tattva.[/quote]

It is very interesting, thank you![br]

[br]SB 11.7.20 An intelligent person, expert in perceiving the world around him and in applying sound logic, can achieve real benefit through his own intelligence. Thus sometimes one acts as one's own instructing spiritual master.[br]

[br]SB 11.7.32: The brāhmaṇa said: My dear King, with my intelligence I have taken shelter of many spiritual masters. Having gained transcendental understanding from them, I now wander about the earth in a liberated condition. Please listen as I describe them to you.[br]

[br]SB 11.7.33-35: O King, I have taken shelter of twenty-four gurus, who are the following: the earth, air, sky, water, fire, moon, sun, pigeon and python; the sea, moth, honeybee, elephant and honey thief; the deer, the fish, the prostitute Pińgalā, the kurara bird and the child; and the young girl, arrow maker, serpent, spider and wasp. My dear King, by studying their activities I have learned the science of the self.[br]

[br]SB 11.8.41: The intelligence of the living entity is stolen away by activities of sense gratification, and thus he falls into the dark well of material existence.[br]


[br]So it appears it all comes down to intelligence, which is something to be acquired (the king asks the brahmana - "How did you acquire this extraordinary intelligence?"), and something that can be lost.[br]

[br]But generally, when people (including some devotees) talk about their decisions, they sound as if they had some inherent, unchangeable quality within or about themselves that leads them to make the right decisions, whereby this quality is not subject to acquisition or diminishing, and they call it their "self" and "trusting myself". I have always found this very confusing. I never understood what "trust yourself" refers to.[br]


[br][quote]Either they jump or not... 8)[/quote]

The horseman knows nothing of the troubles of the footman, and the footman knows nothing of the troubles of the horseman ...]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12971#Comment_12971 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12971#Comment_12971 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:41:05 -0800 portnoy
Nobody here is suggesting that you read any of Narayana Maharaja's or Sridhara Maharaja's books or accept them as siksa gurus or even agree with anything they do or say --- but rather the warning is being given to not use the internet for spouting indiscriminate offensive rhetoric like little mister sgd seems to feel a burning need to do. If you feel that some of Narayana Maharaja's people are trying to recruit ISKCON personnel -- then that's an issue for your local ISKCON authorities to deal with properly. Besides, you don't know for sure whether they are acting on the order of Narayana Maharaja -- do you? Discretion is the better part of valor. Fools rush in where wise men dare not tread. Silence is golden especially when every time you open your mouth (mister sgd) you pollute the ether.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12970#Comment_12970 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12970#Comment_12970 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:36:11 -0800 Kula-pavana
[br][quote][cite] Kula-pavana:[/cite]Not really. But even if I did, why should I trust them more than I trust myself?[/quote]


[br]What is your practical, personal refutation of solipsism?[/quote]

As it was pointed out earlier, this is not solipsism. But even if it was, trusting yourself more than trusting others is often a step up from the mentality of constant doubt and internal insecurity. Eventually in life we develop a list of things and people we trust. If our name is not on it, we still have a long way to go in our personal development. -------------------- I may not always be right, but I trust my intentions, thought process, reason and logic. Sooner or later I will arrive at the right conclusion. -------- Even your desire to trust someone more than yourself is in fact trusting your own judgement. Still, what counts is the RESULTS. Are you better off trusting yourself rather than trusting someone else. In my case it is hands down YES.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1059/?Focus=12969#Comment_12969 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1059/?Focus=12969#Comment_12969 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:28:12 -0800 borokrsnadasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1064/?Focus=12968#Comment_12968 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1064/?Focus=12968#Comment_12968 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:27:00 -0800 borokrsnadasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1065/?Focus=12967#Comment_12967 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1065/?Focus=12967#Comment_12967 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:26:26 -0800 borokrsnadasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12966#Comment_12966 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1066/?Focus=12966#Comment_12966 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:25:45 -0800 borokrsnadasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1067/?Focus=12965#Comment_12965 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1067/?Focus=12965#Comment_12965 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:22:11 -0800 borokrsnadasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1061/?Focus=12964#Comment_12964 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1061/?Focus=12964#Comment_12964 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:20:06 -0800 borokrsnadasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12963#Comment_12963 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12963#Comment_12963 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:14:27 -0800 borokrsnadasa http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12962#Comment_12962 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12962#Comment_12962 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 09:10:55 -0800 borokrsnadasa
'Bhaktivedanta' was a title, not a diksa name.[/quote]

It seems to be implied that name Bhaktivedanta was given to Srila Prabhupada at the sannyasa ceremony. It is not true. He was the first to have this name and Narayana Maharaja is wrong to suggest that he got it first.

Here is the quote from Gaudya Partika on the Jansi opening: The editor of the local Theosophical Society, Sri Laksminarayan Rajapali, was also present; although he holds different philosophical opinions from Bhaktivedanta Prabhu, he is very sympathetic with this movement.

Prabhupada was holding this name since 1947, when Narayana Maharaja was not even practicing. He specifically said it was a name, not a title, "bhaktivedanta" nam ebe sarthak kor.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12961#Comment_12961 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12961#Comment_12961 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 07:04:22 -0800 manasi_seva
"the huge buildings that it intends to waste its money on in Mayapur" vs your quote "to waste its money on Mayapur" has a very different meaning! You cannot see that and you are quoting Shastra? The mere fact that the only difference you see is "huge buildings" proves you either don't read carefully or your level of comprehension is not that good or maybe English is your second language?

It is pointless having a text based discussion with someone who cannot read or comprehend.

Now there is nothing more to be said...]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12960#Comment_12960 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12960#Comment_12960 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:14:11 -0800 VEDA
'Huge buildings' don't change the meaning. Yogapith was also considered a huge building.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12959#Comment_12959 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12959#Comment_12959 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:13:31 -0800 VEDA
Nama is one item of pancasamskara as per the famous article Pancasamskara by Bhaktivinod Thakur.

If Srila Prabhupada at one time used such nickname, then he changed his mind since he apparently disapproved them later: http://www.harekrsna.org/gbc/themes/Jadurani_REFUTATION_Syamarani.htm

'Bhaktivedanta' was a title, not a diksa name.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12958#Comment_12958 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12958#Comment_12958 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:27:53 -0800 VEDA
No. I say that papa and aparadha are two different things. That's also the idea of Krsna Bhajanamrta I linked above.
Without knowing details about Bhavananda p., I can't comment on his case, what to speak of judging him.]]> http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12957#Comment_12957 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/996/?Focus=12957#Comment_12957 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:35:54 -0800 manasi_seva http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12956#Comment_12956 http://www.pariprashnena.com/discussion/1043/?Focus=12956#Comment_12956 Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:24:24 -0800 manasi_seva
Yes the material body and the spiritual vibration are two different things, but if one is a Vaisnava Acharya and a Goswami then one would expect one should have unity in their thoughts, words and actions or deeds. All actions are preceded by thought and we see by his actions what he is thinking.

What are you saying? that a person can be a rampant homo-sexual pedophile (which according to you is only the material body) and at the same time be following his spiritual master and have the correct spiritual vibration. According to Srila Prabhupada and the shastra it appears not to be so.]]>